Smarter together.

Unshare.

I think this is the presidential hackathon?

Thanks.

I was just thinking for in the archives would there be enough to represent the whole process on any given issue or something that would satisfy Martin’s desire to represent the whole process?

If you have a hackathon, that’s not being filmed is it? Is it?

[laughs] Anything you’d like to do? Whatever you’d like to say.

Got it. What are you doing here, Martin? [laughs]

CNA is the major publishing of the whole thing that’s happening, so if you want to...

...know.

Is there a general public route that says, "Hey, everybody, anybody wants to show up, come on down." What exactly is that?

You gave me a more spacious answer than I expected to a bunch of my questions. Final thing I wanted to ask is when and how do you invite general public to participate in v.Taiwan deliberation like Pol.is? I gather you are due the rolling survey which generates more and ...

It points to the...

I have covered most of the ground that I had in my...There’s some things I’m saving off for Seattle. Once again, practically every question that I asked has resulted in a reframing of my understanding so that the question didn’t get answered specifically, but it was the wrong question to ...

And it’s more fun. [laughs]

Because it seems to work and because it’s easier. [laughs]

Interesting. That’s part of the intentionality, you’re just doing it in a different way now.

If there is 100 people, like 10 groups of 10, and they’re going to make another group of 10, they pick those people from each of the groups that’s embodying the group mind for their group. I just realized that you are doing that action in...

They do that iterative process several times and supposedly it moves towards a consensus. At the same time a computer...It’s all been online or in the system software. The computer is tracking whose essay gets picked by the most people, and who picks the essay that mostly the other people ...

There is the methodology Synanim, I think I’ve mentioned it to you before. That has a group of 10 people who they have some problem like, let’s solve the housing problem. OK, so each of the 10 people write their one-page thing about how to solve the housing problem, then ...

Whoa, when you say high resonance in your conversations, does that mean in Pol.is they are saying things that everybody else is saying or something?

I have no idea whether we’ll make it, but that’s an invitation I’d like to give to you and to the Pol.is folks. My last question, which specifically came up and which you were talking about a little bit earlier. Do you take people out of Pol.is for the subsequent ...

It’s not exactly vTaiwan, because vTaiwan has things to do with Taiwan, but the vTaiwan sensibilities and approach, how can that be woven in with the emerging network governance thing. I think there is super high leverage in a realm that’s really hard to figure out where transformational leverage is. ...

If I can figure out how to add in some of the other stuff that’s icing on the cake, but the fact that they already cover the ground of things that need to be taken into account to a certain degree is just as well... Anyway, that’s going to be ...

I’m trying to figure out how to bring the wisdom factor in, but the fact that they’re multi-sector and multi-stakeholder and trying to collaborate, that already covers the number one wisdom-generating point that I got. [laughs]

Part of your work will be to bring into that, and that collaboration between the vTaiwan or just you, and the ENGI thing has a way to upscale in a Daoist way to the whole world through the networks and helping them be able to do their function well.

Helping them gain that knowledge and helping them realize that they are already an emerging form of governance, and we’re just trying to help them do that job better. [laughs] It includes and transcends existing government. Part of me feels there are, partly from the stakeholder focus that you’ve got, ...

Audrey and Martin, what a crowd. We earlier had Margaret, and then she went off. Anyway, so the idea that there is extensive knowledge, and expertise, and know-how in how to work together. There is digital tech and there is human group interaction tech, and all this stuff, and those ...

Let me just finish this and I’ll turn it over to you Martin.

All these sectors and stakeholders, their tradition is to work on their thing in their way and push their thing operating on their traditions.

The fact that these are already emerging, suddenly there is the Daoist thing of move with the energy that’s there. There is energy in those MS3 networks, and the fact that they’re struggling to work together because they are self-interest and own perspective pursuits.

It’s just a vision. The other thing with ENGI, the recognition that these...Steve Waddell specifically noted the emergence of parallel collaborating multi-sector, multi-stakeholder, multi-scale networks arising around every one of the sustainable development goals.

What a think tank of a dozen or 80 people who are constantly looking over the activities of constantly redefined transformation agents, looking for those stuck points that could be tweaked. That’s the vision that I’ve never had, I just wrote up a description of it once, not a proposal ...

Where a conversation of some kind, from an email to a full-blown major conference, would break the, "Who should talk to who, through what medium, about what?" It would be like acupuncture on the larger transformational movements.

The closest thing I’ve come to in a vision of that is actually current one than an old one, is the idea of a think tank that looks for stuck points, for missing opportunities in existing transformational efforts.

Wisdom is, from my perspective, a longer version of that, a longer term deeper version of that phenomenon. It is not something you just have. It is something that you’re iteratively working on all the time. A part of me would love to clone you and have somebody who has ...

Part of that is, how do we develop the capacity to iteratively digest and reframe our experience and our activities, which is what the co-intelligence is about. Intelligence is about maintaining your internal maps congruent with the external realities over and over again, learning and changing those.

Yeah, I know that it’s in this direction that I will want to make my contribution to the future conversation in the afternoon and evening conversation in Seattle. When you talk about the future it’s like, what does it mean to apply the knowledge we have in a way that ...

Which is 17?

...look for where the balls are falling. [laughs]

In coordinating and picking up some loose ends.

Maybe you have knowledge about setting up emergent systems that can actually address that. I would like to be in conversation with you because I have such gigantic respect for the intuitional work that you’re engaged in and the Daoistic style you have and that you spread around you. [laughs] ...

Which was one of the weak points of non-deliberative democracy. There is a hidden agenda here. There is a way I’m trying to figure out what kind of collaboration makes sense in that realm with you? Is there an urge in you to do something with existential threats that is ...

For me, there is a different ratio because there is so many emergent dynamics that counter taking those things seriously. Some based on the way we have evolved as human beings. The limits and urges we have as human beings will often channel us toward short-term immediate kinds of solutions.

That’s my center of gravity totally. There is a way in which I could care less whether we get our act together locally if we can just handle those because, if we don’t handle those, local issues will be semi-irrelevant.

In terms of addressing...I guess I should just say, what are your thoughts? The fact that you talk about existential threats means you’re very aware of that dimension and what’s going on there.

Your focus, I would say that’s an 80/20 thing. It feels like the 80 is on...Well, it’s not your decision to do it. That’s part of why it’s intriguing to me, the dance between intentional design and emergent design. You have an 80 percent emergent, 20 percent intentional design thing ...

Think long term and act now. [laughs]

[laughs] It’s like there’s this thing of "Think globally and act locally."

You meant "we," meaning everybody, or you and me? Which is the "we?" What’s the "we?"