That’s understood.
They will be influenced by any number of things, including any convergences that happen to show up in pol.is, but it’s not as if they have to take every item of convergence that happens in pol.is and either implement it or say why they can’t or won’t.
...to something that’s more complex.
Then, a lot of the articles gave more potency to the convergence that came out of pol.is, and that was part of my initial excitement. I’m grateful for the transformation of my excitement...
It’s...
That’s a total major revelation.
This is just a really powerful way of jerking around the conversational system. [laughs]
The pol.is process is showing certain possibilities where consensus seems to have emerged, and then tossing that into face-to-face interactions, as a stimulant. Both disagreements and agreements can be stimulants, but it’s the face-to-face thing. If you’re going to get something actionable, it’s going to come out of that.
There’s a whole other dimension, which is where they’re going toward an actionable convergence -- this is something I’m newly thinking I understand -- that the actionable convergence doesn’t specifically come out of the pol.is process.
[laughs]
Miki is a coiner of phrases, too, and has a couple of ones that are central to her work, which might serve you, like the noncontroversial essence.
You are very loud, Miki, just so you know.
Oh, yes. That’s much better.
It’s coined and new.
It’s air? [laughs] Excuse me. I was grounding you too much, Audrey.
Or very liquid. That’s what I sense. There’s a way in which what Audrey is developing, that integration is much closer. There’s more of a yin-yang dance and "internalized in each other" kind of dimension to those.
Or very liquid. [laughs]
There’s something like that that’s central, which could be translated as a quicker bridge between the thing you’re saying is essentially American and trust. I’m just curious if Audrey would speak to the anarchic...
There’s a way in which autonomy is not exactly autonomy. The sovereignty of the self is also part of Audrey’s world, as I understand it.
Miki?
[laughs] You should write a book called "The Tao of Democracy."
So that people see the value of what?
If you get worn out, or you have somebody to talk to, whatever.
Yes.
There’s a piece of me, in terms of getting to know each other better, that wants you, Miki, to share your PhD project, among many other things. That feels like a major piece reflecting who you are in your core that Audrey might be interested in hearing.
The one that’s being made right now.
It feels like this video is a starting place for all sorts of things that could happen. If people watch it, then they have the shift in perspective that makes this either a total mystery or compelling.
Yeah. There’s ways in which this fits really well with some other things that I’m working on. In some ways, it doesn’t fit. It’s like the GPSs go, "Recalibrate." [laughs] I am definitely going to refer people to this video.
OK. [laughs]
He’s coming to the US to talk to the pol.is people and has potentially a lot of time available on the 28th, and been looking at it. I don’t know. If you want to drive all the way to Seattle, we can try that. [laughs]
Right now, it’s just...
This is April 28th, Miki. There’s a chance to talk face-to-face in Seattle.
This is with Jerry?
The replication of your lab.
Uh-huh.
I’m just trying to find the place to tread water, not to stand, a place to dance from. Miki, you’re bubbling with something. Go for it.
It feels that’s what you’ve been doing, you’re a model for how one would play that game. [laughs] I hope it doesn’t require that somebody, in a couple hours, can read 10 pages of weird stuff from a totally different frame of reference, [laughs] like you did. That’s a whole ...
I have to tell her about the video, when we get the video finished. I have to go, "Check out this video. This is closer to what you’re talking about, as it applies in real life, than anything I’ve seen." Where do you go with that, in terms of how ...
I think of it, the energy of it is a dance energy. Since conversation is one of the primary ways humans learn in context together, the artists of conversation are artists of the dance of meaning between us. I’m trying to get Nora to think more in terms of social ...
Transcontextuality is another one of her concepts. Interrelationality would be another. The lens you look through is a context, as well as the history is the context, situation is a context, and all that.
She has a thing she calls "warm data labs," which is different stations in a space. People can go to talk about what the topic looks like from that perspective, and then move to another space, and "what does the topic look like from that perspective?" and get a sense.
There’s a funny way in which this is one of the most symmathetic [laughs] things that I have ever seen as an established practice. There is constant context. The responses are contextual.
It is the kind of responsiveness that leaves a trace, and that every part of life, at every level of life is symmathesy. Therefore, each entity is, in fact, symmathesy. Every one of our cells is interacting with every other cell, blah, blah, blah.
She’s created a word called symmathesy, which she defines as mutual learning in context. Her sense of what learning is is not school learning. It’s not necessarily progressive.
She is carrying on and extending Gregory’s work. She has created a new paradigm based in a couple of key concepts.
Nora Bateson is his last daughter from his last marriage. She’s American, but based in Sweden. She has a Swedish husband.
Do you know Gregory Bateson?
