What you’re saying, I suppose, is that you only get binary choices in referendums.

Thanks.

That would just be very…

Those are really great answers. I like the first bit you said was about the consensus and the process, how people understand that they have a part to play in it. Could you just say that once again? Rather than using consensus and process, just say that common people have ...

Mm-hmm. I’m recording.

Can I just have a sip of yours?

Explain vTaiwan works with government and in a way, the process gets people to trust government and government to trust people.

Yeah, we’ve done that, yes.

OK.

Sorry, yes.

Sounds good. OK.

That’s exactly the kind of answer because that’s a sort of simple answer that non-specialist people can understand.

OK, sorry. Just do that once again. Our light has gone off again.

Yeah, recording.

Deepfake, shall we? That should be our next project.

So we can do what?

Unless you do a Skype with us…

Sure.

Yeah.

Just come and hold this as the light has gone off.

No, not at all.

Have we?

Oh, on the night of…

K, let’s see.

Good, good. Just hold this one second. I just want to get my headphones on.

Yeah, that’s brilliant, yes.

Yeah. I think also, you said previously it means that people could find out for themselves, and it doesn’t assume that people are ignorant or foolish or stupid. That it allows people their own mind in a way to exercise their own mind.

Yeah, I mean, if you could just say something like for instance, that it is something that allows individuals to act at a grassroots level.

That’s right, yes.

What vTaiwan influenced…

OK.

If you can start the sentence this way saying my parents were, yeah?

All right. We might move the light somewhere, but let’s just go because…

Right.

Yes.

That’s wonderful. Just one summary thing about your vision and your personal feelings about using the power of the Internet, the power of computers to…

OK, I see. Would you just be able to say, just modes to communicate and say it.

By modality, you mean like mode of presentation?

What do you mean by modality?

Is there anything you can say about, in terms of decision-making, the usual way of decision-making is like the people who are the most articulate, the loudest, the most charismatic personalities, they all win the argument. Is this a way of actually taking that away and actually making more about ...

Oh, you don’t?

Also, they don’t trust politicians, right? Do you think this is all a process to be able to trust politicians, in a way?

All right, but nevertheless, he did say that a lot of people in Taiwan are simply still not that interested in democracy, in politics.

Sure.

Yes, you would naturally, yeah.

That’s good, but…

I don’t know…

Uber.

Yeah, that was great. What about rebuilding trust in e-petitions? Because for instance, the taxi driver on the street probably say. He said that he hadn’t actually heard of vTaiwan, and as a whole, he…

Yes.