This conversation, an hour packs in all of the sitting back and thinking I get to do in two weeks or a month at home, because I’m always just working, working, working. We’ll see. I can’t give you any definitive answers. But I can say that there’s three or four ...

There’s a slate of virtual reality projects that’s developing right now that my wife and I are working on that are just starting to take shape. In addition to all of the work and meetings and everything that are happening here on the surface, underneath the surface, all that work ...

That’s so interesting. I am here, in a way, because I feel like I need to set the reset button, just press the reset button and look a little bit inside and figure out what comes next. Because I feel like I was barreling along for two or three years ...

There’s a certain camp appeal to pretty much all of the ’90s VR stuff. Especially, older media reports on ’90s VR. It’s really fun to watch how it is.

Have you seen any of the footage of the initial immersion therapy VR programs? "Fear of Heights," and all that stuff?

I’ve heard about that being very effective, actually.

But it can do so much more.

Desensitization literally means "numbing," so the question is, "Are you actually getting to the root of the trauma when you do that?"

But I find what you’re saying very interesting. The stuff he’s doing is AI‑based or immersion therapy‑based. Let me find...I have a video that I’ll share with you.

Skip Rizzo is another person who works at USC with Nonny de la Peña in a separate area. Skip does PTSD therapy for veterans of Iraq and Afghanistan and now, the Vietnam War as well, through VR. He was one of the first people to adopt VR as a therapeutic ...

Let me tell you something else. Do you know who Skip Rizzo is?

I see that.

As evidence.

I’ve been trying to explain wwhat social VR is to them and the best way that I can explain it is that you’re always the person sitting in the turning chair even if you are, like in a solitary VR experience, even if it’s very convincing how it shifts your ...

I teach...There’s a State Department program I’m involved with where filmmakers from the Middle East come to the US and learn about American production methods. I do the immersive and interactive mentoring for them.

Spatialized?

The thing that he’s actually added into it that’s really fun is that there’s the ability for users to tag the spaces as they’re going through the pieces with their own comments. As a user, you can encounter the...

You could do something as basic as having multiple drone pieces, drone‑like audio pieces playing in different zones and then as you pass through the pieces, you transition. Or you could just tell a complex story using the real world as your canvas.

That must’ve been something that he was just playing around with. Basically, you can embed audio using Google Maps or using the Maps API. You can see it behind there. You can tell stories through it. He’s a pretty interesting guy. He’s got a good spirit.

He’s an artist in residence at MIT Open Doc Lab. Do you know when this is published? Because I know he wanted to start working with the (MIT) Game Lab. Oh, no. This is old.

Yeah. I saw Halsey’s name in that. Man, you’re quick with keyboards.

Halsey Burgund is the creator. [Audrey pulls up a Roundware link from Google] When did this come out? Did they build this on Roundware?

Roundware, yeah.

Roundware is interesting. You’d have to have the iPhone in your pocket, but check it out. It’s an audio AR platform that never...It’s called Roundware. It’s open‑source. It’s really brilliant.

That’s interesting. Do you know Roundware?

OK. Those are the new ones.

This is the audio?

Absolutely. What are you going to do?

I’ve heard really good things from developers, like my friends who are developing for it. But the thing that’s funny about all this, I’m so not technological. I’ve disengaged from all social media which Jonna thinks is hilarious. I’m not a developer at all. It’s just about... there’s something about ...

Hilarious. You’ve developed for Daydream as well?

That’s hilarious. Have you played with Tango?

It’s funny. Look at all those things. [pointing at the Tango and Daydream logos] Do you think the graphic designers are just waiting to push those together?

Did they move Daydream, I’m sorry, did they move Tango over to the VR department at a certain point? I feel like they did.

Didn’t they move Daydream over the VR department?

They don’t trust it yet to have the systems fully integrated. They don’t have...

Because it used to only...Tango used to be only on like a giant Phablet.

I think my friend, Andy, told me that this was going to happen. When did this come out?

Wait. What is the phone that they rolled out?

Amazing.

Right, and you have the camera going through. You have the Daydream, soft utopian Google Daydream, headset and if you have pass‑through going through the camera with Tango, you basically have like another box...

I agree with that. I would say, "Google agrees with that as well," because Tango and Daydream are on a collision course it seems with each other.

Slowly move down the spectrum.

Which is what Acer and all the other companies that are now manufacturing, or have contracts to manufacture the Microsoft VR devices are using.

Like the head of Microsoft’s HoloLens program is a woman named, Lorraine Bardeen who talks about that spectrum, how there’s VR on one side and there’s augmented reality on the other side and a lot of the technology that’s been developed for HoloLens is now being fed over to the ...

On a technology level, clearly, that spectrum is being acknowledged by the major hardware manufacturers or software manufacturers. In the case of Microsoft, they’re probably not going to be making many HoloLens as compared to other device manufacturers who make the augmented reality glasses that run HoloGraphic.

That’s interesting. That’s very interesting.

Exactly. But VR, the isolation, the sealing yourself off from the world, what is the benefit of that? Do you think that there’s a benefit to that socially, culturally?

Surfacing.

The idea of augmenting reality is a little bit off. I feel like it’s more about exposing stuff that already exists.

But with AR, I feel that’s very right on, because that’s a technology that feels very human and I feel much more in the driver’s seat of an AR experience and I feel like just if you look at the enterprise applications and you look at the social applications, it ...