Great, this is terrific. Thank you again.

I’m going to say, start from where you are, right? [laughs]

That’s a start. [laughs]

It’s their argument.

I hear what you’re saying that you don’t want to be too strident in what you’re trying to say and do because we want to continue the conversation and bring people along. This has been terrific. Thank you so much for giving and being generous with your time. We would ...

It’s still hard. It’s not just a matter of saying, "Hey, we’re going to do this," and then we do it. Then you have to convince people day by day, person by person, including the people you want to participate.

"We’re still happy to have your boss on occasion. I’m not excluding him, but I know what he’s going to say. We’ve had him a lot. Give it a try." They’re still this, "Well, you know, I’m not..." the old, "I’m not going to be perfect at it." It’s like, ...

I’ll go meet plenty of women at events and things. I’ll say, "Oh, you should go on Bloomberg Television. You’d be great." They’d say, "Well, then you want my boss." I said, "No, I don’t. We’ve already had your boss."

It’s helped us recruit people. It’s come to a place where we’re not just talking with the same people we’ve been talking to for years. It’s not easy. Frankly, we still have a lot of trouble getting women to go on television.

Actually, our project started really taking off when we got more men involved, like Samson, one of the champions. Almost half of our champions are men, so it was like, "This is something we all need to do. This is something we need to do for our coverage, for our ...

Still in Asia, that’s not...

And senior management.

It’s in the US, too.

Yeah, I think it’s the fact that she was independent, that it was not a familial connection that got her to where she was is certainly remarkable on the world stage. I think that’s really helped.

Yeah, absolutely.

It was from Japan and I said, "Why are we writing about what she’s wearing?" "Well, it’s interesting." I said, "Yeah, but it makes her not serious, she’s not talking about clothing." It was this bell that rang, that’s still sort of what we’re doing. It sounds like that’s what ...

I got a story the other day where it actually mentioned what the woman was wearing. It was a pre-publication. At least they knew to show it to me.

...or most of the time.

They don’t write about what shoes they’re wearing anymore...

What are some of the topics you write about? What have been some recent columns?

He can do that. He can translate.

Can you send us a link?

That’s fascinating.

Oh, great, then we want to talk to you about this.

Now we’re trying to do this as even more diverse widespread voices. That just because we’re largely a finance and business organization it doesn’t mean that we have to have the same people and the same people who look the same talking for us.

Now, in a good week we’re at about seven times, which is still not where we want to be, but we’re in the right direction and also including more women on Bloomberg Television, in our podcasts and on radio.

Then I commission stories, a lot of them on gender diversity at large. I also wear a hat of I am co-lead of something called "Women’s Voices." We’re trying to get more women quoted in our stories. When we started, we were quoting men almost 17 times more than women ...

That would be great, because one of the things, I don’t know if Samson mentioned this, one of the hats I wear at Bloomberg, my title’s Senior Editor and National Editor and I go on TV and talk about often US politics and policy and try to explain it, which ...

That would be great.

Yeah, this would be a good story for us.

What has been the reception, I guess, outside of Taiwan about this? Have you gotten pushback, people saying, "Hold on, you guys, what’s your silly little experiment over there [laughs] when we have to watch how the message is controlled?" Or do you think it’s a sense of, "Huh, let’s ...

At the same time, I’m thinking, this is this interesting trend coming from your background in technology and private sector, but we’re seeing in other governments, including mine in the US, where I come from, in some ways an opposite trend, to saying, "We don’t want openness. We want to ...

Yeah, it really is. The question, as I’m sitting here listening to this I’m thinking, "Wow, this would work in so many different ways, in other governments obviously."

Is that the idea? Then they go back to their ministry and try to infuse them with this process? Is that part of what you’re trying to do to spread this?

Yeah. I would think that there are things about the private sector in terms of being able to move forward quickly and deadline-oriented that...There’s bureaucracy everywhere. The question I’m trying to get to is, are you trying to bring some of those things that work in the private sector that ...

Do you miss being in the private sector?

Yeah, more fluid and more adhocracy.

Mm-hmm, so is it more focused on majority?

Like I’m thinking in Hong Kong it would be very useful to doing things better with air pollution. [laughs]

This seems like the kind of thing that perhaps is getting interest, would get interest from other governments.

What will you see successes as? Will it be having things online that basically show progress, show success, show metrics, or to you, is it that the process is changing as well?

Yeah, all the time. The public just seem to be embracing this that this is a way for them to be heard and for them to more than just give input, to actually be involved in the process?

How has this all been received in the public? What has been the response? Do you see many people during the office hours?

How have they been about this?

How has that been received both by the private sector and the public sector?

Much of this seems to be focused on technology, but also in a broader sense of, as you keep talking about, innovation. It seems like what you had done in the private public sector is driving what’s happening in the public sector.

Can you give an example?

Does there need to be in all the cases?

When you say social innovation, it sounds like you’re talking writ large, but there’s a technology component to most of the things you’ve talked about.

How big, you said?