Bye.

Thank you.

OK, cool.

…on my email?

Thank you so much. Please, would you send the video to me…

I hope so.

For me, it’s so special to me even though I’ve never been to Taiwan, which makes no sense to me. I really hope that I get to actually see some of these projects in real life.

Thank you so much for your time. This has been wonderful. You make me really hope that we can do things in the future as I continue on with Practice_Practice. I really hope that people know Taiwan so special to me, just because I grew up with so many Taiwanese ...

Oh, OK.

You’re going to be on the fourth season, which is going to be talking about community. Resources, where do you find them? Are they available for you as artist? Would you have time? Maybe…

Oh, wonderful. My next question isn’t quite big. I was saying before in our recording is that I do a podcast with Alexis. Alexa is an art dealer curator from LA. We would love to have you on our podcast as well. We talk about random topics. We have people ...

When do you think you’re able to go and send that over?

That’s amazing. Thank you so much. This has been such a wonderful conversation. I will end the recoding on my end…

Wow. That’s a good wordplay.

That something that art school doesn’t necessarily teach it because they can’t tell you where you fit into the world. You need to go find out for yourself. Beyond that, is knowing that when you have some sort of idea that there is a direction that you can go towards ...

First off, is to know whether you qualify and where you stands. That something that To Practise_Practice talks about. It’s where do you fit in the system. The system is huge, but it might be tricky if you don’t know where you fit.

To think that when you’re leaving art school and you’re early career artist that you don’t have those resources and you don’t have those opportunities, I hope that this conversation allows for whoever is watching and listening to know that, actually, if you just pick through a little bit more, ...

Truthfully, the ecosystem is huge. The ecosystem when you look at look at it on a very large context globally, it’s massive. There’s so many people doing so many different things that crop up the system.

I guess, we’re all going to have to see what’s going to happen. I hope that I get to see some your project more in 2021. That would be so much fun and also just broadening that conversation. Like I’ve said many times, in this conversation, it’s so often talking ...

I know. I was actually just on the news this next morning. They were like, “Oh, the new Oxford vaccines has now been approved. It’s going to make millions,” and I was like, “OK.”

…cases.

Apparently, but you guys are also…You didn’t have any outbreak until recently, you only have…

Oh, wow, OK. Amazing. Your project, that sounds so exciting. [laughs] It sounds a little bit more exciting than listening in the corner of aiming them helping for the best.

I’m so hopeful after hearing all the different projects that you’ve been working on. What are you working on for 2021?

Because that, I find to be more rewarding or resonates with me a little bit more than just clicking onto another OVR that doesn’t tell you very much about anything, or almost the foundation of what the art world was going to be like until we are able to get ...

Now, I can see 50 things at once, and I’m just like, “Oh, my God. I’m so tired.” I just want to see one thing that’s super cool or super good, so I can’t just either invest my time, but just have that engagement, and maximize what digital opportunities are ...

We’re all waiting for the next fair in 2021, which I’m just like, “God, really?” I feel like I’m more exhausted with these OVR than in real life when I used to have to get on an airplane and like see things. Now, it’s like, “Oh, no.”

However, when you can hear what people are saying, it’s rarely that it’s even. I ever hear someone’s like, “Oh, we’re flying over to the Matterhorn again, build this like online thing,” and it’s just like, “Oh, wow, that’s so exciting.” Most of the time, we’re just like, “Oh, look ...

It’s super useful to know that we don’t always have to just wait for the online viewing rooms. There’s so many other opportunities that are available to connect, to go and build your own community, to go and explore, to go out and find new things. I just don’t think ...

Having these social innovations and using digital to a larger extent to be able to go and bring people together, that, for me, is very exciting especially as we’re trying to go have a larger conversation. Then, let other people know the types of work that you’re doing.

For me, as somebody who’s in her 30s, I’m just like, “ [cringes] ,” I said behind the screen a lot. I can’t do more of this unless this is physically my job.

It becomes paralyzing because it’s not something like what you’ve just talked about in the new museum, having this experience where you can virtually go into the Matterhorn and create something. You’re literally going into the centralized, “fair” to go and discover artists to go on by their art except ...

There’s just so much…It’s like every gallery they’re showing at least five artists, and you’re just like, “I don’t know what to look for. I don’t know what I’m looking for. I don’t know what to click.” It’s just like the paradox of choice.

If things are well-defined, it doesn’t make you want to explore. It doesn’t make you want to discover, and it definitely doesn’t make you want to connect. As I’m trying to navigate these online viewing rooms, I give up. I’m just like, “I don’t know what I’m looking for.”

In the world of COVID where we’re very limited in terms of being able to go and see physical exhibitions, it’s important to have a place to go and show your work on a bigger level. However, the user interface like that is really important, which I think that’s something ...

It was like, “Thank you for coming to the OVR.” Like, “Oh, we are this. Oh, we are this,” and I was like, “Oh, my God.” Firstly, I’m confused by this idea of this online viewing room.

The entire art world is like, “Oh, we all need to go on to the OVR,” and people are like, “OVR? What are you talking about?” Because we’re recording this towards the end of the year – it’s literally December 30, 2020 – in December, there were so many emails ...

I was like, “What is wrong with you?”

It’s a poorly design website that doesn’t even let you check out.

No, that sounds amazing. It’s so funny because this online viewing room, as of the art world things, it’s like the pinnacle of innovation. We have this conversation, it’s a website.

…art world, right?

…thing.

It’s not very smooth [laughs] usually.

One of the conversations that I have a lot on my podcast with Alexis is we say online viewing rooms. There’s a huge debate about how the art world has now rebranded these websites and call them online viewing rooms except the user experience is not great.

No, absolutely. However, I suppose, because of COVID, we do need to be able to go and maximize digital in all aspects, because how else are we able to go and see things?

Maybe.

Would you say that your social innovation is more on the digital aspect or the physical aspect, or is it both?

That’s amazing.

That’s amazing. If we ever can get on an airplane ever again and see the world, I would love to see that. Can you tell me a little bit more about social innovation and the cross section between that and art?

That’s so funny. I think it’s a good resource. You’re also super-fast in responding. [laughs] I was like, “I’m going to email you. I hope you respond,” but I don’t know because usually people, they’re busy. You’ve responded so quickly. I was like, “Oh, my God.” Thank you so much.