And of course, what I can do for them, or what they can teach me.

When they wake up, they’re thinking of other things, like, "Do I have a shelter for my kid to live in next month?" Once you can empathize, it changes the conversation you’d have.

I wish I could do more of that in my everyday life, which is parking my own bias aside, and then getting in touch with more different groups of people, and understanding they think differently from me. Their needs are not the same.

I was very changed by that experience.

A lot of people are not ready for that. A lot of people, even just watching YouTube videos, that helps them feel normal. That was step one.

Basically, what can they do with a smartphone at that stage in their life? That’s what I realized very quickly. I had this dream of, "Oh, once you have a smartphone, you can write your resume on there, and apply to jobs through it."

Just because the technology exists, you need to understand the need for it, and what the audience is gaining from it. Is the audience ready to use it? Just as I found as well for smartphones, for different spectrums of homelessness, there’s different needs, and a different mental capacity.

This all goes back to product-market fit.

Exactly, so they think when they see through the camera, it’s there, and they don’t understand that that’s an effect in place. The other thing is, they don’t always hold the tablet properly, because theyir hands are small. A lot of times, a tablet is face down on the table.

They don’t yet know what’s supposed to be in reality.

Oh, that’s embarrassing, but yeah. It was influenced by Apple, but we recently added an AR feature. I found that to be very tough, because four-year-olds don’t understand AR.

Oh, that’s a marketing thing.

Yeah, Sago mini. It’s actually right around the corner.

Oh, really?

Right now, I don’t know if you know this, but I’m currently creating apps for babies.

Apple pencil. I think they need to first know how to hold an object, so probably more grade one, two.

There’s co-play. Hopefully, the kids can actually, because the problem with children, especially someone who’s five or under, their fingers are not very precise. You need a large touch area, or they get really frustrated.

The app?

Scratch Junior, you mean?

Actually, I think that the benefit is that Lego is an educational toy, so it’s all about supporting STEM and those things, which are very popular in these days.

There’s definitely a correlation. No.

I’m not sure what the benefit is, otherwise. I think it’s just philanthropy.

Yes. I was going to say, Mitch and I think other people of that lab have made Mindstorms, and other more directly Lego-related products. I believe Scratch maybe was inspired as well, because block-based programming, it’s Lego blocks.

Actually, I think Scratch in particular, I’m not sure.

I don’t know.

Lego is one of the primary sponsors. I believe it’s called also the Lego Lab.

I think that was a product-market fit that was just the perfect mix. A lot of times, products don’t have that organically, the perfect fit. You need someone to explore intentionally, and then maybe adjust the product or find a different market, and grow it from there.

Which was that teachers were scared to teach coding, because most of them didn’t really know how to code. They’ve created something that teachers can learn and feel confident in teaching.

Mitch Resnick. I did an internship as part of MIT Media Lab. I saw a little bit of what their teams did. That was one of the more, I think, phenomenas where they didn’t really plan for it to grow so quickly and latch on, but they were able to ...

Oh, Mitch Resnick?

I don’t know if you guys have heard of Scratch?

I think it’s really important, because I saw a lot of people who either think revenue is bad, charging money is bad. "Because I’m doing something for good, it should be free." There needs to be a balance.

To me, cross-functional teams, that’s the strength, and having someone like a product manager, or CEO role, that would be their job, is how do I find a consumer? How do I create, now, a revenue model, etc.?

Actually, I think that is a little bit more accelerator-minded. They tend to find a startup team with different skill sets. Whereas I found that in pure academia, it was more -- not always, but for me -- what I saw is more like-minded skill set people.

I mostly think, actually, in terms of: how would you run this business? I was frustrated seeing a lot of academic projects because, to me, I just didn’t know how would you create it as a product.

For sure. I think that’s definitely one of the shortcomings I saw, too, when I was in Boston. Maybe it’s a little different, but there’s a lot of interesting academic projects going on. Because I was a little different, I came from a business perspective; I went to school for ...

That’s great.

Why is that?

Then usually it’s about someone who’s already made some progress in their business or the idea, which I also really like. It’s more about taking something that’s already a good idea, but scaling it to maximum impact.

No, that reminds of -- it’s different, but -- at Stanford, the design school, they have this program. It’s a fellowship that people apply to. They also choose different themes every year. Sometimes, the themes are the same, but they are very specific on, "We’re looking for people who are ...

Some new themes.

I have a few follow-up questions on the groups that get involved. You said they’re not government actors. They’re small groups, individual people. How do they know what the biggest problems are, or is it what they see and experience and decide this is the problem they want to solve?

You guys are very active.

How is that going? Is there a lot of...?

I saw that you also manage the center of innovation.

I know. I’m always...

It’s China? Thanks.

It’s not Taiwan?

What’s PRC? Is that China?

When is the summit?