There’s this incredible amounts of effort that have been put into by the different cabinet ministries and other parts of government to make good digital media like awesome stuff, that is very engaging. People pay attention. It went away. That’s relatively rare in the US.

For those of you who didn’t have the context on the Shiba Inu’s, and I apologize for not having the time to sort of throw that in there. There are massive public health mascot around COVID from what I recall. Those of us here from Taiwan can speak more about ...

Excellent.

Thank you so much. We’re already one minute over. I’m appreciate your time. Everyone is welcome to stick around for a little bit and get a bit more context on some of the things we talked about if you don’t have that context. Thank you all for showing up.

I found that process interesting. I want to see some good Internet beefs going on between the different cabinet ministries. Now, I know you have one in your existing ministries, but the question you have them between across countries in order to get everyone to be having Shiba Inus wearing ...

Let’s use it. Let’s use it to address misinformation. Now, my question to you is, can we get a nice Internet beef going between Taiwan and the US, your president and our president, to help get people to apply these public health measures? What will it take to get something ...

I have one final question here, and it takes a little bit of build up. If you have seen the reading, for those of you…I linked to the humor over rumor stuff that you’ve been talking about over the world which is an important and powerful way to take advantage ...

…time.

[laughs]

Sometimes they run things and so that’s complicated. There’s a bunch of questions here. There’s something here about digital public infrastructure. I guess there’s…OK, let’s digitize them, because that’s maybe a little more self contained, like how do you think about digital identity? Are you considering implementing this?

There’s a sub structure of incentives that determine whether radical transparency is effective or ineffective. It’s more like, if you’re not incentivized to do good in general for people radical transparency can actually backfire versus you’re…

I think there’s a much deeper conversation to sort of get into the weeds of those dynamics, because I can imagine some of some powerful counterarguments. We can type that in enviar.

Interesting. The potential downsides that I’ve heard that seem salient is the idea that everything becomes posturing. This is one argument for why the way Senate and the House in the US certain change…because all became posturing lobbyists are involved in that process throughout and when they weren’t before.

The follow up on here was that test your ideological commitments. The example I give is I’ve seen a lot of research that shows that transparency is harmful in many cases. Sometimes government is defined in terms of…

I appreciate you sharing this. This is a further layer than most of the interviews that I’ve heard when you spoken about that justtalk like what broke, and then how you had to resolve that. That was an important lesson to get at.

…a little bit but go ahead let’s hear the answer to that.

Highly recommended. Sandstorm is also great. You should check that out to. Kenton’s work I highly respect. Ben asked, “Have been there moments or test your optimism?”

…because that allows you to dig into those details that I think we’re fairly…

That’s a very powerful technology. We’ve had a speaker earlier that I facilitated talking about those. What I was curious about following up on that. One thing I’ve been talking to someone who you know, Andrew Konya a lot about the ways in which you can essentially have iterative policies, ...

For context here, mini public, so you can search for citizen assembly, you can search for sortition, they’ve been used all over the world to address all sorts of issues like how Ireland ended up with sorting through their political divides around abortion.

Just to say, you’re saying you used a citizen assembly like mini public?

By the way, people continue to put questions in the chat, so I can calling you. We have one from Panelle, “How do you see existing software tools Pol.is being used for different stages in the policymaking process?”

Excellent. I did see two minutes question moving back up here, which was about how to engage elderly people…I see you did answer in the chat.

Do you have a general framework that you’re using to think about all of these things in the short term, in the long term, in the medium term? How do you approach that? While you’re doing that I’m going to try to fix my video.

I will offer one more question in the meanwhile here. I’m curious if you have other high level thoughts around collective intelligence, alignment between people, corporations, machines.

Wait a minute.

Right, that’s a interesting insight, and I really like asking about what are your success criteria? I think this is a really good example of the power of that. I want to move this at least partially to open Q&A. I want to also ensure that my computer doesn’t randomly ...

What are the metrics that you’re using to evaluate how effective your facilitation of these technologies? How do you evaluate your effectiveness? Where did you…your aspirations could be?

If there’s actually examples that you wanted to highlight of the use of join Pol.is radar technology, if not, that’s fine. If you have one that you’d queued up, I know I mentioned that in our conversation?

I wanted to touch on this new potential that we have due to things like these large or powerful language models and their interaction with this collective intelligence and augmenting governance tools. Is there anything that jumps out at you in terms of excitement or terror with that?

Christina and Kathy, if you can hop in to help facilitate that speak because my computer’s not drawing power for some reason, the best time to have that happen. I’ll be back immediately as soon as I sort through that.

This ties interestingly into one of the other aspects that I wanted to turn this. By the way, we’ll open up to Q&A in about seven minutes or so. I’m going to have to hop out video temporarily.

Not necessarily if there’s Zuckerman’s perspective, to some extent, like building on that. We need to have our governments funding the digital infrastructure that we’re building our world on, things like this Google Meet that we’re in right now. That’s what you’re talking about here. How does the government support ...

That’s ties to this question of, what are the tools that are most exciting to you? If you could magically restructure an organization — I know that Radical Exchange, or have a new system they’ve set up — what are the things that are most exciting to you that haven’t ...

Interesting. I wonder, are there ways in which you have helped incentivized the policymakers to take in this public input? What are the things beyond…? You demonstrated it. Are there incentives that you’re able to help put in place besides media pressure of like, “This happened once. You should do ...

Is that the world that you imagine us moving toward? What are the obstacles that you see toward getting to that?

The world that I imagined the one that you could be helping us move toward, and as one of the actors here, and demonstrators is a world where on TV, we see less politicians talking, and we see more like Pol.is style visualizations or something along those lines, people are ...

Interesting. One thing that, I guess this whole sort of questions. There’s the example here of social media is this big topic, social media censorship, and now, it’s becoming a conversation.

Interesting. This is just one component, because this collective intelligence approach, to do collective intelligence, just one part of the broader challenges of governance. Knowing what to do and talking about knowing what to do, and what’s available. If that was, let’s say, 5 percent of the problem. What is ...

I feel like that’s phase one. You seem like you’ve gotten through phase one. Now, this is a map, it’s like there, but let’s say there’s hot but an issue that’s polarizing Taiwanese society. It seems like in that case, it would be great to have a Pol.is to help ...

One thread I see here is to find the place, people are already having trouble where they already need help and show them these tools, these new collective intelligence tools help them solve those problems by going to the place where they already don’t want to have ownership. You’re getting ...

No we can wait, yeah.

I want to understand how to introduce these things, and also how to handle the challenge of ownership.

One of the challenges I see that I want to get at, if you had to directly overcome, is people who really want to own something and you’re sort of, “There isn’t a Pareto improvement ownership.” It’s very hard to say, “We’re going to do this and you’re going to ...

Are there lessons here for those who are pragmatically trying to introduce such tools into other environments? Let’s say whether in we’re introducing that to a local government, or a national government, or a state government, or community.

How do you see the navigation of that? How have you been able to help overcome some of those barriers to get this stuff implemented?

Yes, I know it’s very interesting to see what sort of bumped up. This sort of gets at, one of the things that I wanted to understand…There are a lot of obstacles that come up when you try to introduce these technologies into governance, especially where people are afraid of ...

I’ve seen that being the sweet spot of Pol.is as a way to extract, here is a set of perspectives from this group versus that group.

When we’re talking about Pol.is and also to collect questions and see. I don’t think this is the right purpose for it exactly, because we don’t have different constituencies or very different perspectives.

This is the report here and that was partly to have people have an idea of what we’re talking about.