Of course. I remember last time when I was in Paris we talked about the data localization part of GDPR and the privacy part, but this issue is more about the technology part.

You prefer to know your tools, basically?

Exactly. Would you say that your choice of using mostly open‑source tools is also to make it easier for you after your initial proof‑of‑concept work or exploratory work to transfer back into the unit or the organization you’re helping with, or it’s unrelated?

Right. We see a lot of internal units doing this part of what they call new media or communication analysis, and they do employ data scientists, but they very rarely contract out to independent firms. It is true, yeah.

By which I mean that textual data are now like proper first-class data, not just numeric data, as was the case 10 years ago. That’s what we have been concretely doing, but of course this all curriculum change, it would take a few years before we see its effect, but ...

Even for people who are more into philosophy, for example, they still have some basic concept of data science and how that fits together with the field that they study. It is true that as more and more humanities is machine aided, you need to at least have literacy of ...

Students basically used live in two or three different disciplines worlds. Starting next year, we’re reforming our curriculums so that we have data science, not just statistics, all the way from the first grade to the ninth grade, which applies to all the schools instead of just technical schools or ...

That means that people, who are more interested in law or maybe in other soft skills and people skills, they don’t get to learn data science. They just know a little bit of math. That creates a problem down the road, because then, people are talking with different languages, essentially, ...

Also, beginning next year, I believe... It used to be that we have this primary school level statistics basic like part of math education, and starting at maybe the 9th grade data science for people who are more interested in higher sciences and all the way to the senior high ...

Before we build the data pipeline, we have to first know what kind of water flows through it. That’s the discovery process. That’s what I’m very interested in.

That’s one thing that I would like to maybe delve a little bit deeper, or to talk together on how to get this kind of unstructured data out of the decision‑making system, so that we can build a data pipeline as a foundation to support this kind of decision making.

If all you speak is statistics, then you can’t get that business intelligence out of those unstructured or semi‑structured silos. We’re very much doing the same here, in Taiwan’s internal government systems, because we have a lot of organizational wisdom, embedded in those unstructured and semi‑structured data formats.

In a large business, they often have a reporting scheme, but actually embedded in one or more of those domain experts’ knowledge. Without the kind of cross‑pollination attempts or the engagement to the domain at hand by your data scientists, I’m sure that this wouldn’t actually happen in the first ...

We did meet during the OGP, and I did learn a lot from the visit. Especially around your approach — I remember the mood boards, all the innovative ways to get what you...I remember you called it "out of system data," things that’s not already collected.

I can share some thoughts.

Of course. Just a second. All right.

I can also refer some other connections, but I will wait for your design documents.

If it’s just for founding a company, you already have this. It’s difficult to think that it gets easier than the way Stripe already makes it. Even if you’re talking about the ongoing management of companies, of updating it to the latest version of the incentives of the local laws ...

Because if it’s just the starting of a business, of a one‑stop shop for example, the Silicon Valley company, Stripe, already has a product called Atlas, where you can go anywhere online and then automatically, they set up a US company, a US bank account, and the contact window, and ...

Right, so not just the starting of the business, but the ongoing management of the business.

The idea is that for cooperating countries, anyone can set up a local company at that territory through online‑only means. Is that the idea?

The best‑in‑class practice, as I said, I’m less versed in the zone itself and the certification. That will be your specialty. I’m happy that you brought all of these concerns to us.

A few false starts, I think, is the best way to have a really good manager, a really good founder to thrive. It is our work, free zone or not, to make the startup culture here less afraid of failing. In that, I’m pretty aligned with the innovation and sustainability ...

If it’s a sustainable return, no matter how long the company lasts, maybe it’ll last just for six months, and then the founder can feel still proud, and find another company based on the same sustainability principle.

If we are to be innovative, we must be unafraid to fail. One of the ways is to say even though the investment didn’t work, at least during the company existence, it created some value to the society.

On the shareholder return, I think Taiwan did put a lot of emphasis on that in the previous years, which creates a need for a small startup to immediately give back return to the investors. That in turn gives a culture that is more afraid to fail.

Like triple-bottom-line or double-bottom-line companies, they will be given an act to exist and declare publicly. What I’m saying is that when I look at SMEs, I see their social ROI. That’s the top of the bottom lines for me.

There is a lot of popular sentiment in Taiwan in the sense that a small and medium‑sized enterprise must be founded at a principle of social return of investment, not just the shareholder. In fact, we are changing our company law just this year to reflect this fact, saying that ...

The plan really got a lot of suspicion from the civil society, because the society suspected that it comes at a cost of the right of their labor working force, and also at the right of the surrounding society. At that time, it was blocked.

Also, I’m the Social Enterprise Minister here. I’m very much in favor of this idea of a social return of investment or the prosperity based thing, because as you might already know, there was a plan a few years ago of a Free Economic Zone here in Taiwan.

They already have your connection. I guess you don’t have to go through me for this then. We’ll be focusing on these two. I will wait for your designs and see how I can contribute.

You met with his Chief Secretary?

Beyond that, I’m not in charge of the smart city plan here in Taiwan. That is to say, I’m not a supervising minister of the Ministry of Transport and Communication. I’m less involved in the smart city plans. Of course, if it relates to your interest or your immediate involvement, ...

One of the companies that I collaborated on ended up joining the PeopleFluent, the Bedford Group. They call it the PeopleFluent Mirror Suite. Just five months ago, I was still working on that. I can of course give some advice as an independent expert on the design that you are ...

For my personal involvement, then the platform itself will have to be shared freely with everybody. That will be my condition. I’m pretty involved in knowledge management also, I’ve worked with multiple Silicon Valley companies that specialize in this.

In any case, the idea is that it’s free for everybody to share the intellectual contributions that I make. If any of the platforms makes use of the free software community’s contributions, including the one that I designed or my friends designed, then I will simply refer it to your ...

Right. My contribution, software and design‑wise, before I joined the government, was always on what we call the open world, the free software world, or the free culture world, which means that I essentially give away my copyright, my patents, and my trademarks. Well I don’t have any trademarks. [laughs]

You probably already have mockups or even a proof‑of‑concept system. What is it? Can I look at it somewhere?

This sounds very good. What exactly is that I can help with the B2B platform? I imagine that you already have something in mind.

OK. You covered that one. I’m interested in the other two. [laughs]

I’ve read something like this in the TopLink section of the World Economic Forum. It’s referenced there.

Best practices, innovation, and sustainability.

Of course.

How can I help?

I don’t know, half an hour?

Please.

Hi. Anything I can help you with?

That depends on what the Supreme Court says.

You mean a referendum?

Something that we can all live with is better than something that’s perfect, but only one half of people can live with.