They actually, now, have the mandate from the people that says, "OK, now this is Internet governance stuff. The minister can talk to Facebook, demanding this, knowing that is what people want on this particular regard.

If we charge, for example, that Facebook should be more diligent in joining the local business association of e-commerce, and making sure the verified merchants gets a better advertisement placement, or at least less chance as being flagged as inappropriate advertisement.

Now, because there’s 5,000 people e-petitioning, it’s essentially 5,000 people subscribing to our newsletter. Once we publish this picture, at least 5,000 people get the same picture.

For the career public servant, it actually refuses their work, because, otherwise, they’d have to respond to individual MPs repetitively. They have to respond to individual protestors repetitively.

Instead of all seven of them taking a little part, we actually get it into many different sub-topics, which every minister can act fully responsible. We now let everybody know that it takes all the parts, but for every part, they’re actually really responsible.

Of course, there’s also the Ministry of Economy Affairs, because it’s about e-commerce, about fair competition, about the Ministry of Interior, in charge of police, and the Central Bank.

From the left, we have the Customer Protection Agency, the Ministry of Transport, because it involves the delivery of trucks and whether they require the Center fully have authentic contact details, and the taxation belongs to Ministry of Finance.

The time they could have taken to explain that it’s mostly not their job is, instead, taken to actually solve the issue. For example, on the Facebook automated con-bot case. This is the RealtimeBoard. Can you see it? It’s mostly Chinese, but...

No, not at all. It’s a diminution of their risk, because their risk is spread, all the responsible ministries in this regard.

In the process, contribute what they know about this particular process. The minister is for both discovering the initial facts, for appointing the participation officers, and for, of course, implementing the policies once it’s declared feasible by the other stakeholders involved, so that they have many roles in this. My ...

I ensure that instead of each minister replying to the petitioners or the protestors, saying, "You know, I can only handle five percent of what you want. The other 95 percent is outside my purview," we get all the participation officers, who directly respond to the CIO of each ministry, ...

Basically, the ministers work on the policy. I work on the process. It’s very different.

This is a very simple problem statement, but it actually spans like seven different ministries. That debate always has to happen on a national cross-ministerial level.

We also have national cases like people complaining there are AI-based chat box on Facebook scamming the most vulnerable people into buying things at a discount, but actually are not delivering the goods and it’s impossible to return it.

Right. Although it’s a regional case, yeah, the debate is taking a national level.

What I’m saying is that the future is not evenly distributed, but in a sense it’s already there. That is what I’m saying.

This whole process takes a few weeks to complete. People take it as granted now, after a year of doing this. Now, we’re ratifying this whole process.

After this is done, this is, for example, Friday, the next Monday, I will bring this to the Prime Minister, and then for the Prime Minister to ratify one of the accepted solutions that we achieved rough consensus, and declare it national policy.

This is a collective fact-finding process, where we try to get the sense as data going, so that people can see a shared whiteboard what all the different ministries and all the different city-level counties have on this particular case, and collectively find a decision. All this is not only ...

For cases like that, where we’re flying, where we take high-speed rails, everybody here, all the relevant ministries, the local county people, and everything to their region, and have a regional forum, in which we use a lot of AI, or mission learning, or alternative technology. Together, the 8,000 people’s ...

After voting, if the petition is nominated for collaboration, if it’s a regional petition -- for example, in one of the rural areas in Taiwan, the south most part of Taiwan or one of the south-of-PengHu islands and so on -- they may petition for, they already did petition for ...

In Taiwan, people’s expectation is that this e-petition will be put to a vote by our ministries’ representatives. This vote is actually after a very thorough discussion process of the merits of the petitions. This discussion and vote itself is radically transparent. People can read the whole thing on the ...

Or if they want to build a Death Star or something, they get a very humorous response, but it’s still just a single written response from an office.

I think, for example, currently in Taiwan, citizens’ expectation is already at the time where if they get 5,000 people to go to this e-petition site. Now, many of the other countries’ e-petition site, if they’re above a certain threshold, they get a guaranteed response from a certain minister or ...

I don’t think it’s a single trend, to be very precise. I have this screen sharing. Is it still working?

It’s already happening and it’s already happened, so it’s difficult to disagree with something that’s already happened.

No, that’s fine.

That’s great. Yay. Let’s get started then.

This isn’t working...

This should work. Just a second, let me make sure that... can I both share my screen and my face?

Oh, here we go. Here we go, yes. Let’s see. Choose a window. Click on player, and...

Yay.

All right, it’s your screen.

You can make me presenter.

Yeah, but you’re the presenter, so I’m not sure how to share my particular...

The top level?

Like screen sharing?

I might want to use the whiteboard, so let me figure out how to share a particular window.

On your side? That’s great. Just send me whatever you’ve recorded afterwards then.

Bye-bye.

Cheers.

Same here. It’s been a great two hours. Thank you so much.

I’ll definitely do that.

Sure.

I’ll have to work on the vocal modulation a lot more to just get it just right, like not 30 percent more, but because this is pre-recording, anyway, I’ve got plenty of chance of retakes.

That’s great. The whole thing will be on YouTube then. I’ll send you a link.

I recorded the whole two hours. You’re OK with me just publishing the whole thing?

What about the video?

Yes, and I was just about to ask you whether you feel comfortable publishing the transcript, the text of what we just talked about?

Yes, super-useful.