Yeah.

Oh, Jesus. The card is full.

That’s the real paradox of Anonymous, because you cannot really separate what is serious and what is not.

Sometimes it has…

What do you mean?

Because at very beginning it was a bunch of people making fun of other people, obviously, on 4chan. One step after the other it began a new form of social movement.

For me it’s a big question. You really have to repress expression? That’s a philosophical question. By experiencing the tolerance of the community, he had to think about it means. Think about what freedom of expression is. It’s a process of politicisation, and maybe I would say that it’s globally ...

...the limits of tolerance not only the law because, of course, there were a lot of concerns on censorship, a lot of laws about limiting the freedom of expression, maybe too much. Obviously, yes.

Yes. I am not completely fond of trolls personally. It was interesting to see someone who was...I don’t know if he was really doing it on purpose at the beginning, but by experiencing the...

Nice metaphor.

OK.

It’s when you are...

Boot sector?

It’s a nice hack.

That’s really interesting.

Yes, that’s quite true.

But I think it’s also because I’m quite convinced we are in a transitional period, and the pirate party is in-between. That’s quite interesting to see, but one way or another they have to be a party like the others. If they want people to vote for them. That’s complicated ...

Yeah.

The Pirate Party was founded on very digital concepts. The question of intellectual property or file sharing, the question of transparency, the question of privacy, but the problem is that when they are part of the political team, they have to be part of parliament and they have to vote ...

It was about the pirate party which is, well, actually a good example because a party is not only about tools to improve democracy, it’s being part of the political scene.

No, not at all.

It’s the same word, but with two very different meanings.

They translated...

The word is “Or”, which is "yet."

It’s a mistranslation. I don’t know what the good word would be. Let me check. That’s very funny.

To walk on two legs.

Two legs.

You have to see lots and lots of meetings and you vote and it takes a lot of time and hacking is fast and sometimes more efficient, but you have to... These are two legs, I would say.

That’s something I really like in the hacker mentality because I have spent some time in more traditional organisations...

That’s nice. What was I saying? Yes, there is something very, it’s not only that’s fast, it’s also, I don’t know the word. There’s an issue and you try to find an answer and even if it doesn’t work you debug it and...

Do you have a lot of questions or it’s just to know if the photographer has the time to go and eat something and come back?

It’s also the idea...

There are different temporalities in there as well. What I like in the hacker culture is this capacity to address issues, and try to find answers even if they’re not perfect. It’s...

That’s impressive.

I think that’s part of the world we’re living in.

Uber is good example, you see?

No, no. It’s a complicated issue, because there are other cases because I think crowd is too fast and law is obviously too slow…

Through different temporalities.

They have to be part of the political answer to a lot of issues, but they, it’s my point of view, I assume it, they also have to provide technical answers even before having the democratic debate, because sometimes it takes a lot of time. I’m really happy that, for ...

One the other hand you also have to do things. Not only crypto parties, people who can code they write software.

On the other hand, I really think there should be a public and democratic debate about this question of encryption. We see it with the Apple controversy. There is a big debate in the United States, also in France and in Great Britain and a lot of other countries. For ...

The specificity of the hacker movement. Let me tell you an example. I have done a lot of crypto parties with hacker people, and that’s do-cracy. We think we can meet and discuss a little bit of what you could do and invite people to join, and etc. That’s the ...

Yes. Probably.

Do you mind if I use my electronic cigarette?

Nice. Thank you very much. Do you have anything to add?

OK. Yeah.

Of course.

Audrey. Yeah. But that’s reactionary, because that used to happen a lot…

It varies from one country to another, and from one group to another. For example, you know what the CCC...? Yes, of course you know what the CCC is. In the CCC meetings, there are very strict guidelines on that question. You must not harass people. You must not discriminate ...

They don’t want to be...?