Every place we go, there’s an indicator for. There’s one for Denmark. There’s one for United States. One for Colombia. One for South Africa. This phase of the research is actually having the teachers develop their own, instead of the researchers coming in. Taiwan is the first to do this ...

Yes, it’s our context.

Yes. The whole project that we do is that when we go to a country, we would select schools that already have playful learning. That’s why we picked the first school. That’s why we picked that thinking. It’s that you made into the research says something about it.

[Mandarin] ?

Yes.

They asked us, “How do we solve this problem?” I said, “That’s the biggest mystery in education. How do we take a child, and then on the other end come up with these miserable adults through education?”

Actually, during the workshop and also the panel presentation, that was a question that keep coming up. People would say, “My five-year-old daughter is so playful, so curious. Then, I teach in the college, and my graduate students are miserable [laughs] when it comes to learning.”

We mentioned Nelson Mandela, and they’re like, “We know who Mandela is.” We’ve mentioned you, and you got applause.

We mentioned Niels Bohr, and people don’t know who he is.

That was the one that got the biggest applause.

No. I want to say that we also mentioned you at the workshop.

Yes.

Yeah. That’s what we’ve been doing.

Yes. This is the manual from our presentation, our workshop. That is a page that shows what the indicators are, moving up. Those are the key ideas that they came up with from their research.

…and [Mandarin] . The teachers there tried to come up with their own indicators of what this playful learning means to them and what this would look like in the Taiwanese context. Actually, we could share it with you.

Yes. I grew up in Taiwan. [Mandarin] . What we were doing is the Forest School which you probably know [Mandarin], maybe. [laughs]