Bye.

Amazing. Thank you. She said she enjoyed her two weeks in a hotel.

I don’t know the system. I was so surprised that she did it. It was to give a talk. I was like…

A friend of mine did go to Taipei.

I will be on that side of the world as soon as I don’t have to quarantine for 21 days.

I look forward to reading over it.

This liberal sharing of information and content is something that does excite me, [laughs] publishes thing. Then the other thing, it’s like, “What is it changing? Are we just re institutionalizing ourselves?” In the conversation around intellectual property, the shift there is observable. That’s interesting. By all means, do take ...

The focus should be there if anywhere. It came up with Vitalik’s accuse, he was talking about the bifurcation of Ethereum with Ethereum Classic. The portion of the community, how to stop them from using Ethereum name. He was like, “Not really.”

Creative production is also commons.

You have to. Exactly. My perspective on it, I’ve just always found it quite boring. An idea is an idea. I want everybody to be compensated for what they do. I also don’t want to fight about overviewing.

It’s amazing. You have these holdouts. With NFTs, I’m curious, for example, whether there’s…I just have this picture that there’s lawyers circling the scene, waiting to go corporate and sue somebody for image misuse or something. I haven’t seen the big…Just think about that. I’ve seen some Instagram posts [laughs] ...

Yes, I do. That was another thing to go back there. For me, one of the most tangible ways I see the discourse that you’re working in that RadicalxChange is working in that Vitalik’s speaking, specifically Ethereum, are operating in one of the most tangible ways I see that there ...

Completely aside, if you would be interested down the line in a more in a formal interview for public consumption, I’d be very honored to.

Exactly. I’m a big fan of…I lowercase everything I can get away with lowercasing. That’s also seems very pertinent. It’s gone noon and I do have to go, but can I offer you anything? I enjoyed this conversation.

He wrote this thing. It took the metaphor of the balcony. I never thought about it in these terms, but what you said is this as a way of mitigating in this case, public and private and self and community in a way that’s selective and safe on the Internet, ...

It was for the first issue with Art Papers Magazine, I did. It would have been late 2013 or early 2014. We published. We called it the Balconist Manifesto. I know there’s like… right now, it’s not. Despite this artist called Constant Dullaart, who was among the Dutch. I don’t ...

In other words, this is quite inspiring in a very nice infusion of rather reminder of the fact that prosocial [laughs] means can be conflict free, or that there can be natural synergies between what could in a different way look like.

The fact of the matter is that the tools that will support us are always, it’s just historically, it’s always been the case. They are also always the same ones that we could use in the harmful ways. It’s not the media. [laughs]

In other words, I do even reading radical markets, for example. My impulse is a critical one that I’m like, “Wait, what if this happens? [laughs] What if we choose the wrong? What if we choose the wrong?”

Also, what I do see a structure such as quadratic voting does is that it actually does press the individual’s preferences without dictating the prioritization of it. What do you think is going to…?

I do find myself going into, let’s say, whatever given meme or thread, often with the view to not trust. It’s non violence. There’s an interesting…Just occurred to me as you’re explaining this too, is like coming at it from a more of a benefit of the doubt position rather ...

[laughs] That’s really interesting, what you say. I do find myself, for example, in my editorial work, in terms of what discourse, or imagery, or language I choose to engage with, what feels right for a given moment, I do find myself auditing in the sense of a horrible tax ...

[laughs] Yeah, I would agree. I’m curious, as you’re saying, not a top down method but how to engage outside the rationalists. We get the nihilists on board.

Since we’ve touched on Occupy a lot and various methodologies, I’d be really curious about what your views organizationally in terms of the Occupy system.

Unlike the political media, you do have constituents, but the threat is less. [laughs] Going back to the spiritual connectivity too, I super love religion, but I just hate dogma. That goes back to the institution building question too. How do we structure it in a way that’s dynamic, and ...

It was also artists talking about terraforming. It just happens to be a pretty flexible, discursive milieu for conversations like that. Plus, it’s less regulated. You don’t have an FDA requirement. If you want to try a new idea, you can just see how it vibes.

I got funding to do a special issue on public transportation. Our papers, for example, where the art in a given thing was like a photographer going inside [laughs] of the vehicle or charting bus routes or observation of that stuff, in addition to just being about…I did an issue ...

In the past, I’ve edited art magazines obviously, and made programs around art, but it was never about art. That’s for the academic journals. It’s about what artists are talking about or using art or vehicles.

Right, exactly. That is interesting too and there is an unite without the religious comparison, we could go a long way with in terms of these communities too.

Intellectually curious, obviously that thing too, but for me it’s more like going out and getting something out. I think that, for example, there’s certain words as you say, the lowercase minister in your case, which bravo, lot of people don’t figure out that.

Promiscuity is more like an essential passion.

…more I touch to linear time or something.

Ad hoc, whereas I would say… like a post, and just not like…

That’s amazing. Well, there’s also a little bit more intention in that.

There’s only so many area in which you can do that, which is why, I assume, actually why even something like RadicalxChange has been drawn to call promiscuity, right?

There are so many arenas one can inhabit. One is, I don’t want to say promiscuous intellectually because that implies superficial if not, [laughs] but interested in a fusion of ideas or a kind of being together ideas and conversation.

It’s for me, publishing is making public. That’s what that means.

That’s the kind of thing. For me it’s not so much like I’m a hardcore magazine. I mean I love that, [laughs] but I’m not like a traditionalist in that respect.

There’s a brand building aspect to it and idea of content that also could be on a T shirt, but also could be a party, [laughs] but also could be an exhibition, also could be a talk, also could be in a magazine or just like wherever we can get ...

…you’re interested, but also give specific questions. I mentioned the short answer when people ask me what I do is I say edit magazines, but I don’t just do that. I edit magazines, but I also make public programs. The magazine I edit now is also a fashion brand.

I just wanted to check in. I know I’ve been jumping around and kind of rambling and throwing ideas out there, but I do want to tell you about myself if… [laughs]

Yeah. I was looking at some…I got an iPhone memory on this day last year. I was like, “Oh, my God.” Then I looked at the text message that was associated with it. It was hybrid meetings or in the way we think. We were just talking about that in ...

…right at lunch.

That was the real pain, was when the restaurants were closed for dinner. They had to…

Relatively safe. They can also go on walks and staycations.

It’s funny. I’m so grateful that my parents are in Hong Kong because they’re…

I know you’re not being cavalier about the virus and how you handled it.

Yeah, I’m in Central Europe. I know.

The other thing that was addressed, they agreed also that there was a bit of a golden age [laughs] at some point when it was more diffused, obviously, for me, conferences would be super catalyzing, but they’re harder to get that. You don’t do the dinner after the panel.

My observation is maybe there’s things of both that we can take up for now, and it’s a fusional vision, position. I’m still curious about how to meld this decentralized attitude and get the best of what was working with that while still building a sustainable policy.