[laughs] Bye.

You really are. Thank you. It’s been a privilege to speak to you.

What makes you such a brilliant communicator? You’ve got the engineering. You’ve got the poetry, and you can communicate really complex thoughts in a simple way. What is it about you that makes you able to do that?

I know I’ve got to let you go. You’ve generously given me your time. Just before you do go, can I ask you, where do you see digital democracy in 2050? What is the one thing you would like to have seen happen over the next 30 years?

Yes, very much it’s the relationship you have with yourself, isn’t it?

I want to ask you quickly about education, if I might. You have really disrupted the education curriculum. Again, looking at that through the lens of identity, correct me if I’m wrong, but it feels like you’re trying to enable students’ own identity, expression, and interest to really come through. ...

Yes. Is that a problem with social media, that people have got avatars that they are hiding behind?

Do you think that’s important in terms of identity? What you just said about initializing a conversation has to be face-to-face, or in a…

Am I right in thinking that you said something before about the keeping a distance between yourself and your avatar?

What about people who may be less used to using digital technologies? Maybe they’re older, or maybe they just don’t find it that accessible. How do you…?

What about, you’ve talked a lot about the crowdsourcing on policy, upvoting, and downvoting ideas. Can I just ask you, on which of the platforms does that happen? Is it on vTaiwan, or is it another?

You’ve got actual rights that come along with that.

Interesting. Do you think you’ll ever allow any of us outside of Taiwan to be part of this? I’m thinking systems like Estonia, with e-residency.

Everything became centralized. Everything from lab testing to track and trace, everything. It didn’t quite work, because it was too centralized. Do you see – or maybe you don’t – the Taiwanese approach as a decentralized one?

Interesting. Do you see your system of community collaboration and participation as a decentralized notion? One of the things we were just talking about, as I said, the so-called open democracies, they went to quite an authoritarian lockdown.

Are you surprised that other so-called open liberal democracies chose to lock down their citizens and go a completely different, more authoritarian route to coping with the virus than anything like you did in Taiwan?

Do you think that the citizens feel a real sense of Taiwanese identity, or do they feel like global citizens in this very open, democratic approach?

Continuity of identity.

You’re linking the history with the future there.

I’m interested to know, obviously your approach is very much open governance, collaborative governance, co-creating all these tools. Do you feel that, with that in Taiwan, you’re giving citizens a sense of identity? I wonder if you could just talk to me a bit around the psychology of that.