Politician as a poet?
I know Jeremy also a long time. He was also part of the Kingdom of Piracy.
[laughs] Yes, I saw that.
They’re so excited.
That keep hogging public conversation. I was very happy to see exactly it’s not only limited to gender bodies. It’s actually bring up all the...
I think just to point out exactly, in your program, when you did the whole public program for how many months?
Paul just did this big public program at Documenta last year. It was in Athens and in a castle. It’s called "The Parliament of Bodies," so parliament. When I first read his work, I was like, "Wow, what the..."
Paul wrote a book called "Testo Junkie." For us, it’s a very classic, very important book, for example. I feel this is definitely a very interesting topic to start talking about hacktivism in both sense. It’s just a matter of how we can get it to here today, which seems ...
I think, as the moderator, I would like now to sum up the first point. I think it is a very interesting point now. Basically, the title for the talk is called "Democracy in Transition." At the same time, we are quickly getting to gender in transition, including, as you ...
改變?
It’s so exciting, but I was wondering how would the interpreter want to do? I know that you’re here for a purpose. I was just wondering if, a certain point, you want us to break. For example, this is one point I want to ask you so far, how we ...
As the moderator.
So we continue, "Please, welcome to stay." At the same time, I know it’s very hard. It’s so exciting so it’s very hard to cut you, so I’m just cutting once here, now.
I was going to say it’s going very well. Maybe I should revise myself about this first part, second part...
Sorry, go ahead.
[laughs]
It’s a boast that she never studied abroad.
It would probably take me a couple days. This is the thing. A lot of the vocabulary in English I would not know how to translate into Chinese. For example, it took me a while to understand what is data in Chinese.
This will probably be difficult for me because my computer knowledge, my computer technique and everything, I learn in the West. I actually had no connection with the development here. Until now, I cannot type Chinese on the computer. It probably would take me...
I think that’s why the hacktivism, more of the word hacker.
Hacktivism, you understand.
That’s why today is so relaxing.
Exactly. I think during today’s conversation, we should probably narrow down a few topics.
It’s almost the same time. From that perspective, it’s very interesting to connect you two.
Actually, 2001.
I would probably organize it better, but it’s basically why. Particularly in the course, I would say with you I actually knew you as a hacker, 2011. We also know each other since around 2000...
Exactly.
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, being lazy.
Just so you know that this conversation...
Yeah, but because she...
That, I think, had to be made clear right from the beginning. We are not really particularly talking about the artwork. Rather, during the press conference, we would introduce the art, the installation, and the film.
To cut in again, exactly. Yes, this particular talk started out from the work, the exhibition itself. It’s really bring up much more issue, and particularly not to only focus on the sex issue, but more all kind of regime, political, social, agency.
I wanting to bring up the project not to limit it in the panopticon or in the prison of Prigioni, but extend it into the whole society. Also, that was mostly data panopticon. We have come out with terms like data panopticon or sexopticon, [laughs] these kind of words. Sexopticon, ...
The other thing I want to say, because I have done work with panopticon in terms of panopticon as the 17th-century prison structure, and then today’s all-around, all about everywhere in the city, everywhere the facial recognition camera, the whole prison in China hosting 20 million, these kind of situations.
Because this is the beginning point of this whole project, because of the location or Prigioni being a prison, and because, before we start doing the research, Casanova was incarcerated there. That bring up this whole topic.
Exactly. The problem with this project right from the beginning will be because of the prison, because of Casanova. We got into this idea of really study the crimes that related to sex and gender and all that. At one point, we probably would call a sex show deviant, but ...
Of course, I would introduce you and introduce Paul and where you all come from, but then I wouldn’t really totally join the conversation in a certain way. I would probably play the role more like a moderator. Of course, at any point I feel I can contribute, I will ...
As far as Tuesday’s topic’s concerned, I want to be more the moderator.
That’s fine. That’s what I mean because we have two hours.
Pretty much, we should do this maybe for an hour. After the first hour, they can all leave, and then you can do the interview in English.
Yeah, but maybe we can do a bit of rehearsal just for them so they understand. Me and Audrey, who knows the language, we could say, "Oh, this certain word is totally out of the way."
Then you will maybe...
What I’m proposing is that maybe we use one hour to talk about what we don’t talk about on Tuesday. Maybe we talk a bit whatever, and then they can try to see if they can grasp everything. I say, for this first hour, they can interrupt if they don’t ...
The second part would be that Paul would like to have more of an interview with you, which will combine with the talk we would have on Tuesday once we have a transcript of that. Maybe she can already also do some more in-depth interview tonight, and that would serve ...
They want to join a bit to also understand how the talk will be about.
