Perfect point to end on. Thank you so much.

But there’s this point, where we don’t know where the ice is going to break, underneath our feet, as we’re racing to get that golden ring. Is there some critical point, Audrey, where there’s something else that would need to happen some other emergency break, whether it’s TSMC shutting down ...

And so we’re keep racing to go as fast as possible, with heavier and heavier venture capital, billions of dollars, to build a more powerful thing that’s racing across the pond, because of the promise that if I do that and I really unlock the, the Lord of the Rings ...

I mean, these are great examples and other democracies should adopt liability laws, just like what you’re talking about. If we keep pushing this all the way to the extreme, where you’re saying, okay, we’re on this thin ice, it’s getting thinner, but no one knows exactly what the breaking ...

So there is some kind of burden of responsibility still, on the manufacturer of those chips. I mean even if you are looking at controlling the harms in Taiwan, the rest of the world doesn’t have that capacity. So I guess there is some moral responsibility there, isn’t there?

Well, it does and it doesn’t. I’ve been super-impressed at those at those at those some laws — it’s amazing but those laws clearly don’t exist in any other democracy in the world. So, the chips that Taiwan makes a still feeding into those harms, where they’re created in other ...

If you had a sense of the Taiwanese government had a sense that AI was going down a path which would be bad for humanity. Would the Taiwanese governor, would you advocate withdrawing TSMC from the market to stop that happening?

So we’ve really got it clear, because a lot of people don’t believe that there is artificial general intelligence. Is Taiwan and are you working towards the assumption that there is, and that Taiwan therefore has a responsibility in how that develops?

And so Taiwan is sort of printing the oil, the core resource that you need that will automate the cognitive labor.

And that’s the 90 percent of the chips that are manufactured in the world to make to train AI are trained in by one company. So created. And it’s that 90 percent of the chips that are manufactured in the is that 90 percent of the chips that are used ...

And this gives us a chance to reinforce the cognitive labor point, which is always good to repeat. So maybe we’ll just do that. Audrey, this has been so incredible and we’re so grateful for you to provide a model and inspiration and hope that democracies could have an upgrade ...

I think you might have one of those. Well, there is the just making Taiwan playing this interesting role in the race to build AGI through TSMC. And so let’s see here.

That makes great sense. Should we wrap it up, guys, with one last goodbye question? What’s the goodbye question you’re thinking about?

I’m just being a skeptic, how does that work in the United States? Like, you know, I’m having trouble recognizing that with with America.

I mean, in some ways that’s what this whole episode has been about, right, but maybe is it is a good to speak to policymakers.

I have one more question. So that’s on making elections in particular more resilient, but zooming out in terms of what other advice you would give to other countries in terms of creating more and AI resilient democracies, I’m thinking like, if you were to advise the UK or the ...

We use paper here in Australia. Audrey, you’d be proud of us. Paper ballots only.

But the key takeaway is make sure the ballot is on paper.

Okay, do it.

What’s the takeaway? Right.

Okay, well, can we get into it but I just want to really emphasize that we need to talk about this, which is intelligible to a large group of people, and we’re still kind of trying to upskill our audience in what open-source is. So anytime you mention open-source, I ...

Okay. No, that’s good. They might not understand the issues, though. But can we get… Because we’re running out of time. I just really want to get Aza and Tristan. You have a lot of concerns about the safety of open-source AI, and yet what Audrey is discussing really rests ...

I’m confused. You know, how do you not have 12 year olds contributing? Is this only voting age people who you are sending this message to? Doesn’t that skew the results a little bit, if you have a 6 year olds doing the survey?

What’s the percentage of people using vTaiwan? What are the limitations? What’s the buy in from older groups and disenfranchised groups? How many people will participate in these things? It seems like there might be selection bias in the kinds of people who are going to actually be involved.

Can I ask a clarifying question? You know, I wonder about and I’m sure listeners will be wondering about how many people actually doing this?

Yeah, we’re gonna run out of time, so let’s move on.

I think that comparing and contrasting that with, or just a realistic one is, and then comparing contrasting that with what the US is facing, may not be very many significant comparisons at all, but it would help bring the stakes home and cause listeners to then kind of be ...

I mean, as a listener, just to jump in, like I have no idea at this point. We probably probably shouldn’t assume that, unfortunately, although our listeners are very educated, we shouldn’t assume that they know everything about the China-Taiwan relationship, and the threats that you experienced to democracy in ...

I’d like to go quickly to question three, to some of these are about just more specific, about how AI particularly impacts Audrey’s vision for digital democracy, and what the challenges are since the proliferation of large language models, did we get to that?

We might just pause here. I think we need to redirect the conversation, a little bit, between the China, that Taiwan has with China, that the US has, or do you want to go there?