Thank you. See you next time. Bye‑bye.

It was good meeting you.

Good. Thank you.

That’s a good role to have. [laughs]

Exactly. Basically, you’re given free rein to...

You can do all the new and creative things?

Coming up to a year.

How long have you been in this role? You say you were in Silicon...

Appreciate it.

Thank you very much for your time.

We do our part in trying to recognize organizations in terms of their digital transformation efforts. Obviously, these efforts need to translate to real business performance, so we are doing this around the region, and obviously, Taiwan is one of the markets. They all will then meet in Singapore to ...

Thank you for that. That reminds me. We just launched just this year, so tomorrow is actually our event where we are going to award five winners in Taiwan.

In the engineering world, when you tell them designers, they always think about fashion design and interior designer. They don’t think about it as design thinking.

You could be at the forefront of it, to be able to talk about Taiwan and design. Once you do that, I can see the private sector coming in, like they’re not so focused on US in the past. Maybe it’s time for them to look at it.

The good news that you said earlier is that none of the governments have really done this.

Of course. Definitely. It’s good for me to actually understand. The designer part is what is very cool, that you can really do this, because it’s a complete different DNA of Taiwan.

I’m an analyst, so that’s what I do.

That’s the kind of stuff that we actually provide. In the future, if you see that there’s any gaps or if you have questions, then either Sherry or Will will be the right people to...We always love to have interaction.

Obviously, we help ministries, governments, and companies. When you say when you want to have a regulatory change, or when you say, "You know what? Fintech or financial is colliding with payments and with Internet, and then with retail then, how does this collision work? What does it really mean?"

Those will be the big area, and from her perspective, because of the role, I am actually one of the global leads for digital transformation. That’s why she thought it would make sense maybe for us to just have an interaction. Those are the different things.

Today in our database, we have more than 3,500 organizations, including government, around the world that have come to IDC to get an understanding of their current digital maturity index, so where they are today in terms of how mature or not mature, so that it gives them clarity on ...

Digital transformation is a very big thing in the marketplace, and we actually started quite early in the journey to go out to provide a framework.

The second is our country infrastructure. In our sector, we have the largest in‑country, because we believe that you need to be in the country, in some cases, in the city, to really understand and to stay abreast of the trend. Those are the two‑key thing.

Public sector is one of the industry that we cover, so we have experts in the government/public sector area, which is why Smart Nation and Estonia are given all this information, so industries is definitely one.

Where our strengths are, our capabilities are one, we go into industry. For us, industry is a very big focus, like financial services, manufacturing, data, blah, blah, blah, and government.

Basically, our model is that customers come to us when they want a wealth of information that they themself cannot, obviously, collate. That’s the main model that we have. If you go to www.idc.com, there’s a wealth of information, but you have to be a client, obviously, to be able ...

Obviously, we can cover from a local perspective. Basically, we’re global. Our HQ is in Boston. We’re a information provider, and technology is obviously our strength and our focus, which is why we’re familiar with Silicon Valley, and Apple, because obviously, they are one of our customers.

Are you familiar with...?

Are you familiar with IDC? We didn’t talk about it.

Would you depend on your agile team? Do you depend on your own team, or you won’t?

On that, you don’t know what you don’t know, meaning that you are thinking, "OK, I want to make this change," X change, or Y change, "and I need to arm myself with enough information." Where do you go and look at?

Is there anything else that you want to chat about? Is there anything?

Exactly. Their behavior automatically will change. The point of this whole digital trust is that you need to consider all of these factors and get to that point, as opposed to just focus on cybersecurity and security technical elements.

If I learn from the Estonian example, and the China example, too, is that if you create and nurture an app economy, as an example, using i‑Voting, if you create enough of them, and all the residents and citizens are so comfortable with an app environment, then they will see ...

If you look at the Estonian example, you can get there, even for presidential election voting.

Then you also, at the same time, have to look at how pervasive your application economy, how much investment, how you nurture the economy and digital payment.

My point is you need to look at all these factors. This is a new research area that we’re talking about, so maybe the next time I come back I can give you a better picture. Our current thinking is you need to look at technical. You need to look ...

The more pervasive these things are, that means the more exposure the citizen and the resident have of these things, the more comfortable they are. Maybe they don’t really trust the institution, but because they are so comfortable, your digital trust index goes up.

It’s also how you nurture the application economy and mobile penetration. You see, you have to look at app economy, mobile applications, which previously, when you think about cybersecurity, you don’t think about the experience there.

There are different matrix. Obviously, you need to look at the technical side, from a security. You need to look at the trust at the government and institutions, so banks, and all this. How much do people trust this institution, and that’s where your regulations come in.

At the back of their mind, they are also thinking, "I don’t really trust the government," but then they are giving all this because they are so comfortable with digital services. My point is that when you look it, I think digital trust is a better way of focus when ...

Yes, exactly, but then they don’t really trust whether people look at their data, and things like that, but now they are also willing to give data. Alibaba is collecting all this data. WeChat is collecting, Tencent is collecting all this data.

They have got so comfortable now that they are fine to do mobile payment and digital payment, even though they don’t completely trust the system. That’s the new element that we’re looking at.

Digital trust is actually quite low, because the trust in the system is not that high. It’s not the lowest, because even though they don’t trust the system, but because their mobile app experience and their digital experience is very good, it actually bring up their digital trust.

They are connected. For example, China. China’s a very good example. It’s a very extreme example. Digital lifestyle, very high. They are the world’s largest e‑commerce market. Digital payment with their mobile platform, definitely world class. Everybody knows about it. China the benchmark.

Things like that. I feel that a lot of countries, their focus, when they think about cybersecurity, they only about the technical. They never think about the whole experience and the trust level that your residents and your citizens will place, and that is important.

You also need to look at on the trust that your citizen and your user have in your platform. Digital trust also should include the whole experience, like the connectivity, whether Taiwan has a lot of apps, whether users are comfortable using application.

At IDC we have been working on security for quite some time, but now we are getting into what we call digital trust. This is really about how, as a country, if you look at open data exchange now, a lot of countries, when they think about cybersecurity they think ...

That is one that I would recommend, because then it opens up. Clearly for you, you are very innovating, cutting edge, so you want to look at all the cutting‑edge stuff. The Estonia is one. The other one that you talk about, cybersecurity, I thought would be interesting to talk ...

I say, "You need to look at not only tourists that come to Singapore, people who transit in Singapore and just use your airport, but you also need to expand it to people that you want to attract to come to Singapore or through Singapore, because that will be your ...