All hazards.

Great. And those scenarios also involve potential mega disasters and not just potential…

And this is every two years. This is held in Taiwan and you’re getting international partners to be able to participate. Are you getting substantive US participation in these exercises?

Right. I think you’re mentioning that there needs to be a coordinated response. To the extent that you are able to disclose, how is it? How are you coordinating? Are you training? Are you exercising potential crisis scenarios?

That’s wonderful to hear that it seems like it’s all being streamlined. You mentioned that during the speaker’s visit that there was the DDoS attacks. What was the quality of those attacks, in your view, were they substantively different? Or was the difference purely in the scale of the attacks ...

Are you finding that there are the proper mechanisms in place right now between the interagency as well as with the private sector through which you are able to set and apply these types of standards? Are you finding that they are all in compliance with those standards?

I think what you referenced in your second point was an emphasis on standard setting. What models are you applying as the standards that you are advising or requiring stakeholders adopt as part of your ecosystem? What models are you applying to as standards for the security and safety protocols ...

Thank you so much for that very good overview in terms of transformation of the responsibility of this organization. Given the broad mandate of the organization, many observers were curious to see how this organization would evolve and respond to the unprovoked and illegal invasion of Ukraine by Russia.

Okay.

Oh, really? I found my way here. Thank you.

Are you Zach? Nice to meet you, Zach.

I’m here to learn as much as you are willing to and able to share with regards to the work that you are doing. And I would love to be able to bring that knowledge and information and insights back with me to Washington where my organization is based and ...

Indeed, yes, with the PRC regime. And as such, how you see this organization that you lead, this government agency that you now lead, is responding to those various types of scenarios.

And furthermore, more specifically, with regards to what you, your ministry, and the government writ large is learning from the experience of Ukraine with regards to enhancing information resiliency, both from a defensive as well as from an offensive perspective on how to contend with the potential challenges and threats ...

In particular your vision for the future of this organization and how that fits into the broader government organizations in Taiwan.

Thank you for going on Taiwan Salon and announcing the Digital Ministry on the program. My purpose here is to be able to do some fact-finding with regards to what is happening in Taiwan, and as part of my work visit here at this time, I would really like to ...

That’s very reassuring.

Do you have any thoughts on the Balkanization of the Internet, and how you see the long-term development of the Internet, for instance, as someone whose life is dedicated to technological empowerment, and things like that?

What can open societies do to again, ensure that the Internet does empower not only the people in our socities, as we should certainly protect the freedoms we enjoy in open societies, but to help those who are less fortunate and can also access and benefit from the empowering aspect ...

…the Balkanization of the Internet, or the fragmentation of the Internet. What are your thoughts about that trajectory? Are we on that trajectory?

Increasingly what we’re seeing is that, especially with the closed authoritarian governments, they’re closing their Internet. While at the same time for open society, trying to keep the Internet open, how sustainable do you think this kind of arrangement is, where there is an open Internet and a closed Internet? ...

Obviously, you’re highlighting this in Taiwan in terms of “haves” and “haves not,”” but there’s a huge “haves” and “haves-nots” in the world as well.

Minister, if I may bring the conversation back to technology, because this is clearly your forte. You’ve spoken very eloquently about the empowering aspect of technology, and the Internet especially for its ability to be able to give a voice to people-but that voice isn’t equally distributed.

We had a recorded video remark…

If you have any thoughts on that in terms of what have you seen and observed and you can share with us that you can hope better inform our analysis about these issues.

If you could share some of that because I think, as researchers, metrics are important so we can start looking at how do we come to a common understanding about these oftentimes quite complex concepts as well as measuring our effectiveness in dealing with what I think we’ve identified as ...

I suppose my question is whether, in your efforts now, have you been able to come to establishing some metrics in terms of how to measure the effectiveness of your countermeasures that you’re undertaking to use technology in promoting national cohesion?

Oftentimes when we talk about technology, we often point to the discord that we find in the online space constantly because it’s been utilized in such a manner by authoritarian governments to sow discord in open society.

…is to sow discord, exacerbate social, political tensions, polarize society. National cohesion I think is a natural antidote to those type of malign activities.

I do think that is one of the most important aspect of being able to counter the overarching objectives and purposes of…

Minister, if I may, I think one of the things that you’ve highlighted in the course of the initiatives that your government is undertaking is how you are utilizing technology to promote national cohesion in Taiwan. I think that’s an important element that is often missing in our discussion about ...

NDI?

You certainly don’t need me to tell you that Taiwan’s experience matters. But I think there is a growing appreciation in the world for what’s happening in Taiwan because the rest of the world is facing it now. Taiwan’s been facing United Front for a very, very long time.

Again, as a organization focused on Taiwan however, as GTI is, we’re literally looking in terms of how Taiwan’s experience in these very various areas apply to what is happening in the world.

I’ll leave it at that, but be happy to talk more specifically about what I observed in Singapore, Japan. I did field studies for the research that I’m working on. While I haven’t done my field research yet in South Korea, I do think South Korea could provide some very ...

There’s a growing awareness about why that regime is actually such a threat. That comes from again the ideological component of the strategic competition with China that is now becoming much more on the forefront of our discussions.

I do want to be specific. All governments engage in some form of influence operations. We have to be clear in terms of why it is that the Chinese Communist Party influence operation that engages in is so much of a concern. It has to come from the specific types ...

Looking at again Japan, Singapore, South Korea, Hong Kong, and then trying to identify the various methodologies, the platforms that are being used, develop case studies to discern their type methodologies. Then, I think going forward, being able to have a much better granular understanding about really this type of ...

Again, it’s important to look at this holistically. Oftentimes, we have a tendency to look at these in very siloed ways. When we look at it more holistically, we appreciate much more of the implication.

Right, where United Front groups are actually advertising [laughs] on those meida outlets and how they censor information about the protests.

We have a tendency to isolate them and think of them as autonomous units. But I think the systems, as Mark often likes to refer to in terms of a system analysis, is that you find that propaganda reinforces United Front and United Front reinforces propaganda. I think this is ...

Beyond that though, there’s another working hypothesis that I find at least reflected to be more evident through my research, which is the reinforcing mechanisms of the propaganda apparatus and the United Front apparatus.

Still, it’s quite high, the negative opinion in Japan towards China. So much so that General Secretary, Xi Jinping, recently told Japan that Japan needs to do more to improve the perceptions of Japanese people towards China, despite the fact, of course, much of that negative public opinion stems from ...

Despite a underreported volume of activities that are happening in Japan, for the most part, they’re still active in reaching out to the fringe groups in that society, which reflect an inability, at this point right now, to influence public opinion.

Those methodologies include traditional United Front activities of reaching out to various constituencies that are mostly more on the fringe elements of society. You can find that it’s generally harder for Beijing to penetrate mainstream of those societies and public opinions. Japan is a prime case of that.

My approach to dealing with this issue is to start with a hypothesis. The hypothesis is that while these specific policy objectives, strategic otherwise, may differ vis-à-vis various different countries, their methodologies are nonetheless similar.

And what happens in Taiwan provides a telling lesson for the world. There’s a lot to learn in terms of what is happening here.

As we all know, Hong Kong is undergoing some very profound changes and looking at these different techniques and methods in which the Chinese Communist Party engages in trying to change the social and political fabrics that society through propaganda, United Front, which are further enabled by technology now in ...

My input in this project that Mike is working on comes from a more regional perspective. I have also been engaging in research related to CCP influence and operations not only in Taiwan but looking at other Asian countries to include Japan, Singapore, South Korea, and also Hong Kong.

It’s all the more important that like-minded partners and allies are able to work together not only in the physical world but in the digital world. That, perhaps, has even far-lasting implications in terms of how integrated technology is not only with our own daily lives but also in terms ...