Thank you. Bye.

Thank you. Have a wonderful evening. Thank you. Please thank your assistant. She was so grateful and graceful.

Yes. Absolutely. If you don’t mind, I will send you my movie. I made a movie. I wrote it. It was released. It’s about women in war zones, but how they can thrive regardless. One of them raised me, built an orphanage for children, built a school and a university, ...

You have people in the media that whenever you ever need to promote anything in the media, you have real allies who believe in your mission and would love to import some of the tools to the rest of the world, especially for the people who have no voice. The ...

Absolutely. With great pleasure. I thank you so much. Please know that you have allies in the United States.

Obviously, you’re one of those amazing rebels who are changing our world. It will be included in this book that will come out in a couple of months.

You’re my third interview in that. The first was President Ellen Johnson of Liberia, who ended the Civil War, and used sex strike, she and Leymah Gbowee, basically, to create a movement where they mobilized, galvanized, organized, ended the Civil War and elected the first woman African president. I love ...

I would love also because I’m writing this book about women and human who are transforming the world, changing the world. Rebels I call them. Those rebels are women and transgender, obviously. For me, you are one of my rebels who are transforming the world. I have no doubt about ...

It’s important for the world, for our next generation, and above all, it’s a story that will inspire the world. I have no doubt about it. After you publish the video, I’d love to publish it as well once you give me the permission.

You can publish it already. What I will do is, as I told Alessandra, the three things I will do. Alessandra will use it to send it I believe to some people in Hollywood, because they’re interested in making a feature movie about you, which I absolutely would think is ...

I love it. I am so grateful. Is there anything else I skipped? Forgive me if there’s anything else that we did not touch up on.

Amazing. They need rules and they need to respect those rules. You’re one of the few people that is engaged on the forefront in changing the world and making it more transparent, democracy that protects the citizenry and not works against it. If you have to identify your inspirational leaders, ...

Also, regimes are exploiting the commercial model to tell them, “OK. We will sell you money, but you sell us basically the secret so we can monitor or spy on our citizen, etc.” How can we make these platforms and companies more socially responsible? Or force them to become socially ...

I know you consulted with Apple, and you were involved in high-level artificial intelligent projects and also in the development of Siri, but we’re seeing less and less transparency from these groups and more – how can I say – hijacking of certain platforms.

My final question. You talked about government and civil society, and obviously, your identity and all of it. We’re looking at all these big tech giants, whether Apple, Twitter, or Google. All of these guys.

You are right.

[laughs]

How do you feel about the fact that you’re…In 2016, obviously, became a minister. You’re the only in the world that identify as transgender. 2020, you have Petra – the suitor. In the whole world, we have only two people. How is that possible in the 21st century? What kind ...

Thank you. Regarding democracy, I know…Tell me if it’s right, but I read somewhere that on Wednesday, your office is open to the public from 10:00 AM to 10:00 PM, and anyone who have any proposal for you or for the government, regardless of age, occupation, social status can come ...

Then you have people protesting in the street saying, “This is a dictatorship. I don’t want lockdown. I don’t want the vaccine. I don’t want anything.” Because there was a deep distrust of democracy. Your model shows a democratic country and an autocratic country. What can work best?

In Italy, for example, which is a democratic country, but there is a huge movement that was anti-vax. There was a huge propaganda that basically exploited all those rules about lockdown and COVID to instill distrust from government.

They shot themselves in the foot, and now they have to run from one crisis to another because they could not trust and empower their citizens to help them solve the issue. Unbelievable.

Seems like a police state, in a reality where this is the wealthiest city and yet their wealth didn’t matter, because with matter it became like a regime. It was all as a regime, but it slipped totally into an authoritarian rule that became so oppressive.

You see with the Coronavirus for example, you can see next door your neighbors. You see what’s happening in Shanghai. It’s where people are committing suicide. The lockdown is becoming even…

You relied on trusting citizens and social responsibility. That you gave them enough trust that you knew that they will protect themselves and each other. That was the formula.

That I could see clearly through COVID. The management of the crisis in Taiwan, made Taiwan and obviously, Australia, a leader. You played a major role in that success. Can you tell us please more about that? If you would say, what are the main point of success that made ...

Exclusion from benefits but control your life. What you’re suggesting is the other way around. Sharing the privileges without control of your life. Live a life that is free enough tolerant of others and respectful of the thee, and tolerating and embracing and respecting all of others.

I think somebody was tweeting all over the Internet, how insecure a man that he needs huge missiles. I remember the joke between Kim Jong-un and Donald Trump. “My missiles are bigger than your missiles.” I thought, these are the same people who want to use majority rule to control ...

It’s amazing. Two days ago, I was watching Vladimir Putin give the speech. Behind him there’s these big, big missiles. Here’s a man standing in front of these big missiles as if he needed to stand there. I thought, how insecure a man should be to put these big giant ...

How do you cope, if I may humbly suggest, with this wave of conservatives and macho way of trying to impose or trying to create fear and suspicion around people who don’t want to be identified with old stereotypes?

Exactly.

Even sexual identities, and how there’s a wave of conservatism that is waging a war on all of us in the name of, that we have to be part of their world that is either black or white.

No. If you feel comfortable about your personal identification, but also about what’s happening around us globally when it comes to our identities, whether it’s a racial, religious. Whether we belong to minority or not.

Welcome back. [laughs]

Of course.

Whatever, exactly. That was seen by the young people as a brilliant act of non-binary. I don’t want the world to define me, I want to be what I am, what I want to be. How can you reconcile that with what’s happening around the world globally, in terms of ...

Also, we’re seeing here in the United States an aggressive movement against minorities, especially the LGBTQ. Laws after laws, after laws too. In Florida, where I teach, the governor said, you’re not even allowed to say that you’re gay or transgender. You’re not even allowed to say it. You decided ...

Organize globally. Beautiful. We’re seeing for example, now with a war with Ukraine, how a smaller country, less militarized, winning in the court of the public opinion because of social media, because of technology, because of the exposés of everything the other side is doing.

How can minorities take an example from what you’re doing and some of the examples of your movement for social justice, for global justice. What do you think the lesson number one? I live in the United States. We had all kinds of protests connected to minorities, whether the Women ...

This is brilliant, I must say. Way before, you bypassed all this censorship and blockade. You talked about majority rule in democracy, and also how to find ways for minority to exercise their influence. We see around the world, the whole minorities are, whether they are segregated, crushed, demonized, criminalized.

Three years before the pandemic. Three years before it.

You advised your government to participate at international meetings, UN meetings, and other meetings digitally combined with some kind of diplomacy. It’s brilliant. During COVID, everything went digital, everything went online. You were ahead of your time to bypass censorship and pressure from government.

I love that. I love also what you did to counter the pressure from China to exclude and erase Taiwan, especially from the consciences of the international community.

How can we look at Taiwan as a successful model? Any of the advice of how can some of your steps that you are implementing to better your democracy can be implemented and can become global?

They turned their citizen into dissidents. What we see now in Ukraine in other period, they’re turning groups of people trying to erase the identity of these people.

Exactly. You did the reverse. You protested. Those citizens who were very angry became even more active citizens. Can we say that?

It’s 2019 and 20 percent of Hong Kong’s population of 7.4 million people protested, went to the street. By propulsion, these are the largest protests in modern history in any nation. It’s not the end game obviously, because Hong Kong government and Beijing government managed to turn a whole generation ...

Audrey, that’s inspiring. It went very fast. Clearly, your activism became crucial to the legitimacy of this new government post-revolution. I want to read you a data. I was looking at it.

Audrey, how did entry into politics materialized? You came from the private sector. You build basically a career in that direction. When did you decide to enter into politics and what was the driver?

You’re telling me that in Taiwan, you’re strengthening your nation through the process of consolidating and validating and celebrating these diversities and create a better consensus. Is that where technology plays a role?