That is part of the story, in that if you tried to convert from every format out there to every other format out there it would be a nightmare. There are too many of them.

I emphasize that often we — certainly myself — as technologists, tend to focus on the exchange format, "If only everyone used RDF. If only everyone used JSON and JSON Schema."

You need an exchange format, obviously. You need some way to exchange between these tools, and the other is you need tooling.

Imagine a journalist at a newspaper. They might use Excel. They might use JSON if they’re a data journalist. Imagine what it would be like if it was one click to import data from anyone or anything on one of the data platforms into the tool of your choice, into ...

One thing that you could imagine would be that you are a government official, working in Excel. An ordinary policy‑maker or analyst in one of your departments is probably never going to use JSON, but they will use Excel.

There’s a really general problem, which is we want to reduce the friction of getting stuff from A to B, from tool A to tool B.

My Chinese is not good enough.

I could just talk about...some of the ideas might be quite common for the other things. The one question I would have at the moment is you guys all... I will speak in English. Is that OK?

Here we go. I’ve got some things here. That’s the one I want, view, into full screen.

In terms of the platforming, do you want to tell me a little bit about... if we take 20 minutes on that. One thing I could also talk about a little bit is the Frictionless Data or data containerization ideas, if that would be useful.

Second, there’s obviously the book, but particularly out of that is what I call the "open fund" through use open software in gov. Then we might add to that. Let me have a look. Here we go. This is the one I want. I guess I can actually open my ...

Let’s discuss these topics. One is the practical platform question.

We can talk about that, as well. One other thing, let me see if I can go and open...where did I write these notes?

Perfect.

Thank you so much as well. It’s a pleasure to meet you. Maybe we’ll see you on Saturday, who knows?

You have our email, so we can just keep emailing.

We’ll be back. Sylvie’s Taiwanese.

Real pleasure.

Very good to meet you. Thank you.

I suspect that it may not be here right now, but I think it will be in 20 years.

Ultimately to build an open movement of the current, you need to go beyond... We need to reach out. That’s why for example, inequality seems to be quite a powerful message globally.

I think the challenge of both for us is how we go outside of the tech sphere.

I did write freedom, innovation, healthy and wealthy. I agree.

Is the stronger one.

...there will be innovation too.

No. I’ve already got that. I think what I would say...

No, I said governance.

Lovely.

I’m here until next Wednesday. Next Tuesday, Wednesday. If tere’s anything you want to follow up on let me know. This has been very, a privilege to meet you.

It’s not going to be a public event. Many people must be in the policy, PhD candidate, deputy CEO of the Open Culture Foundation, which is obviously... OK. Thank you so much.

That would be amazing. Could you do that today by any chance? Because it’s getting close to...

Could you mail them alternatively?

There’s several people from the OCF, and several others. There’s a couple of entrepreneurs. There are some people from the NTU, National Taiwan University. There’s also at least one civil servant.

10:00 AM to 5:00 PM. It’s open‑leaders.com.

It’s on Saturday, 10:00 till 5:00. Here in Taipei. Write down the time.

If you know anyone in particular in g0v, I’m particularly interested in people who are civil servants who might come. It’s invite‑only in the sense, it’s got limited space. I will run it. It’s highly interactive. It is about this stuff.

Whisky Chang?

Yes, those I’ve dealt with.

I have emailed you.

They’d say, "An open world is a world in which all public information is open, blah blah blah."

This is what we as a community and a set of movement, an open movement, you need to be clear and get is, that across the world we could go anywhere and say, "What’s an open world?" I’d say, "What’s an open world?"

Exactly. My point though is, what is the definition of open world?

You’d say, "What world do you want?" You might say, "I want a digital commons." Instead say, "I want an open world." I even start to use the word "open" systematically. I don’t even say, "Open source software." I say, "Open software."

The source, I’m not so concerned there. The process is quite technical, so calling them commons wouldn’t matter so much.

...which are shared narratives.

What the process is...

That is the t‑shirt brand. We want an open world. Because we don’t get into the detail of the commons which also is controversial to people.

I’m like, the commons, it brings all the wrong intellectual associated. I would say, just, we constantly say, "I want an open world."

Even earlier on you mentioned very commonly that many people don’t...They’ll even have events, like there’s one in Poland, the thing for the commons. Or like, we want digital commons.

We don’t need to worry about the technical term. Because when we’re talking about what world we want, often like what you were saying, you think like, "We wanted a commons."