A number of networks that you have makes you stronger because you have a lot of positive contributions to them so they do positive contributions to you.

Correct. We saw that if the synergies are good, people are not draconian in the way that they’re going to eat you because you’re innovative, nothing like that. Just continue to be innovative. People are just not going to attack you anymore and that’s it.

Correct.

Our idea is more about collaboration, innovate to a place where they cannot, and then bridge the gap to them, and then, keep these people happy, keep these people informed, give them choice, give them choice on what we said is…

Just because they’re crippled by the regulators and regulations doesn’t make them any bad. They need to work within the rulebook, right? Just because you are a startup doesn’t mean that you don’t have to follow the rulebook. Hello! You have to follow the rulebook, too, and then, you’ll fall ...

If we are going to hate the banks, and we’re going to take over all the banks, why? Why? Did they do anything wrong? They are following the regulations. They are working with the regulators. They are playing within societal rules. Maybe, that’s what’s crippling them to be innovative.

If only you don’t stop innovating, you don’t stop being creative, if you’re not shy, if you’re able to be open, this is the place where we can, because most of the fintech area, especially in the world, is bank haters, basically.

We were like, “That is even curious,” because then, we are now doing the B2B, shortening the sales cycle in such a way that it is beneficial for businesses to operate effectively. We were like, “Oh, my god. This is mind-blowing.”

Yep. They were like, “OK.” Then, we presented the same use case for Cardiff, BNP Cardiff, which is a French bank and an insurance operator in Taiwan because they can upsell directly, but they sell it through Taiwan Corporate Bank. They were saying, “If you have tools like this for ...

Yeah, then I could actually do it. Then, I know…Some people don’t trust doing transactions on phones. That’s OK. Go to the counter. There’s people there…

You just go to departures, but as these guys are sitting there waiting to sell . It’s not going to work. If you tell me when I’m sitting and I can actually make my decision with no sales push for me to actually buy my insurance. If I can compare ...

Then, we went to Taoyuan Airport and we see that insurance companies lined straight. They occupy a lot of space in Taoyuan Airport. Then, we were wondering, like, “OK, when you get to the airport, your first concern is not to miss the flight. Find the check-in counter, get your ...

This was fantastic. I never expected Exit to be something, which would actually help people to be made aware of the risks they can achieve once you leave Taiwan. Who’s going to cover the risks? These guys.

It’s fantastic. We proposed to Taoyuan Metro, Taoyuan Metro gives us the green light to put the flight data and we put the flight data, and then, Cathay comes and we tell them, “This is what it can do.” They were like, “OK, don’t stop innovating. Don’t be shy in ...

Yes. They were like, “Yeah, we’re looking…”

Where is this?

[laughs] We don’t even know until they told us there’s an API for the insurance. I was like, “Well, what do you think?” They were pretty…this is something very, very…a good thing about Taiwan is that they came back to say, “It’s a great thing…”

Then, we said, “We will give you all the data, and then you give us back an API. Then, we will process the insurance there.”

Oh, well, I was too busy. I did not know, but now, I know. I’m sitting now. I have one hour from Taipei to Taoyuan. Cathay said to me, “What do you propose?” I said, “We can introduce a customized insurance for that particular journey because we know where they’re ...

We then looked at the MOTC data, I think, for flights. Then, we actually created it, and we added that as a model as well. Now, the good thing with that one is once we added t model, we spoke to Cathay and said to Cathay, like, “Hey, don’t you ...

It’s all about giving the right information for the people at the right time. We proposed this to Taiwan Metro like saying that, “You’re an airport line. Don’t you think we should give the flights data to people who are actually taking the flights?” They were like, “Well, if you ...

Once I get there, which counter should I go to actually check in my luggage? Then, which gate should I go on? People get into a panic mode for not knowing. If only you informed the people prior, then I would be in a more cool, calm space. I would ...

Still, there’s lots of open data available not being completely tapped on the power because people see open data as a good thing but not used effectively. I think we don’t inform the businesses as to the usefulness of that as well, the fundamental issues, again, of not informing people.

That’s why we’re working in a model where we are expanding and contracting based on what we’re doing, but we consistently grow ourselves in a more holistic way. I think it’s a good way, I think.

Correct, because now, he’s in Himalaya. He’s in the basecamp right now. We need flexibility for people as well. You can’t tie them to say, “Hey, you need to work. You don’t have freedom in life.”

Yes.

Yeah. For the Hacking House as well, we had Wolfie with us, the German guy, to work on the hardware limit.

Once that was done, it was just data loading of every city. You don’t need…

No, we’re still only three.

Correct, not being used properly. APP Park was perfect because we were still new. We needed some space to understand and see where things are.

Yeah.

Subsidy only cripples growth. That’s my personal view. I might be wrong.

We, personally, don’t believe that’s the right way to encourage innovation or creativity. However, we support small businesses. We should be competitive enough to portray and say, “Hey, this is the project. It’s a project-based incentivization. You enable us to actually do this, and we will support you to do ...

Then I thought, “Oh, maybe if we speak to you and then share our experiences, maybe there might be a way around to actually deploy it effectively.” We don’t believe in subsidies and grants because it only incentivizes people to concentrate on the subsidy requirements or on the grant’s requirement.

Then, I thought who should I be speaking about this, and then I met you. [laughs]

That’s why I was thinking maybe there are other sandboxes, which are going to be in place or plan to be in place where we can recommend things where we can actually say, “Hey, this is not done. We can actually do it.”

Yeah, it could be something. This, I would never expect to happen in India where I was born, not in UK where people would actually recommend you actually go use your solution somewhere else. It happens only in Taiwan.

When we spoke to the FSC and also for the regulators here, when we spoke about Urban AI, they were like saying, “I think you should be speaking to the Ministry of Transport because they have another sandbox for transport solution…”

Everybody else can actually see if you can actually portray it in a non-negative way, a non-competitive way, but a more collaborative way to actually make things work and reuse existing resources, which I think was a very, very good way of doing it.

They’re not that synergistic as compared to Taiwan at least from my perspective, and I’m guessing a lot of positive wipes running around from the governance side, from the business side.

Yes. I was like, “Yeah, I can see where you’re coming from.” I said, “OK, fine. We will work with you, no problem. We will do that.” For us, we have seen that, from a synergy perspective…I was working in London for the last 15 years, but I don’t see ...

Yeah. I said facts-based resolution or a solution is the most effective way of doing anything. We need to empower people to actually do it and incentivize them to do it.

Then, we said, “There is my buyer.” The buyer would be somebody who would want to use facts to present their use case. It could be DPP, or it could be KMD. You never know.

An air box.

The same thing.

That also compliments you telling that the windows also should be sending the data back as to what…

As long as people were given facts and they made decisions based on facts, then it would be a totally different model.

If the data was given in the right hands at the right places, it could have changed the election outcomes basically because if I, as a user, told you that I’m using an air purifier at home and somebody is telling me that my area is polluted and my air ...