Right. Also, there were apps developed here within Taiwan, for social distancing, and for coronavirus information that…

Right. Factories for surgical masks that can be N95, N98 as well.

Taiwan can help. It’s become very recognizable around the world. We’ve seen on Twitter people from other countries. I want to start by asking about Taiwan’s continued role. Of course, Taiwan has donated millions of masks. They have done some more recent developments in offering to…

That’s right.

I think there’s a lot of interest not only in what Taiwan has done and your role in that. We’ve heard so much about that, but also the role that Taiwan continues to play going forward.

Great. Thank you. Good to see you again. We’ll just get started. There have been so many developments within Taiwan and with the world’s understanding of Taiwan as the pandemic continues.

All right. I’ll start recording this one.

OK. Thanks so much.

Thanks a lot.

Thank you so much.

That’s always a good bit of advice.

Is there anything else that you would want to add? I definitely don’t want to keep you for too long. I’m really grateful that you’ve spent so much time.

Right, absolutely, and certainly helps us with being able to engage with something that may be false. That’s really interesting. I think when I absentmindedly use my phone is something that I haven’t quite thought about the impact of, being on my laptop versus that. That’s very interesting.

That’s a very important thing for everyone to learn to do.

It may be in there?

Do you ever have any sort of public service campaigns? Do you ever publicly encourage people to do this, for example, to do things like these healthy habits, engaging on larger screens or using email?

Summarizing everything we’ve talked about, I think that my first takeaway is using engagement and transparency as more preventative methods rather than just reacting to what happens. Could you speak a bit to the importance of what an individual person can do, both by themselves and as a member of ...

Right, like the plates of power moving around, whoever they may be, how that goes down to a people-to-people level. My interest in what’s happening with mis- and disinformation here in Taiwan is that it goes to that individual level where it can impact someone, drag someone to a polar ...

It’s interesting. Just from my personal observations, seeing the dynamics of fear play out in different ways has been something to observe with a level of healthy skepticism, at least for me, how you will see, as tensions rise between the world powers, and not just Taiwan and China, but ...

I wonder what you would think, though, when there starts to be accusations. This is personal, but also it goes into a bit of how I think you do your job when you prioritize engaging with everyone, including people in China. When accusations are being made, like, "Are Chinese students ...

Do you ever worry that these engagements could be limited as the climate, at least between governments here and in China, is changing?

It gives them a framework to do what they may want to do.

...students, could you describe how productive they were, like the attitudes of the students towards wanting to learn...

Through that experience, when you were engaging with Chinese...

Do you ever really do?

...people, do you ever engage people in the PRC?

As you are generally looking to engage...

I know that you’ve mentioned when there are messages from content farms, you’ll generally ignore them because there’s not really a way for you to engage. As we know, a lot of the content army, like the 50 Cent Party as they’ve been called in the PRC, a lot of ...

Of course.

How do I want to put this? I know that a lot of mis- and disinformation originates domestically. When we talk about China, there’s no way to really know.

When you see that, is that a target for someone you’d want to engage, you’d want to start a conversation with?

That’s great?

When people instantly say, "This is from the government, so it needs to be taken with a grain of salt,"...

...or how the text in the articles avoids being too technical.

The cabinet’s website, for example, I’m not sure, and I don’t read Chinese well enough to know how those headlines...

You’re right. There’s always a balance. You want eyeballs while you’re also...

Right, and you want to...

I’m an editor, as well as a writer. When you’re writing a headline, you want eyeballs.

That brings me back to what you had said before about how you had a conversation with Ko Wen-je about how he said clickbait can be characterized as fake news. At the same time, and you mentioned this too, a lot of media organizations try and use those very attractive, ...

Of course. How does that currently work? I’m not quite sure how that works with PTS.

It does seem like having a public broadcast or public media outlet with, of course, full editorial independence and a strong, robust system of doing very quality project work...

Funding PTS, for instance, is that its own potential way of having a more trustworthy or a more stable media environment?

Here in Taiwan, I believe PTS gets something...For example, NHK in Japan is funded 20 times more than PTS, something like that.

Another thing that I wonder -- it’s more in the ballpark of the NCC probably than yours -- the importance of having a public broadcaster is something that I’ve also heard mentioned as a way to combat disinformation, having a trustworthy well-funded public broadcaster.

Taiwan Media Watch?

This is here in Taiwan?

I’ve heard a lot of that. I’ll start there. Once again I was at TFC yesterday, and they talked a bit about that. How do we engage? I believe they’ve tried to before and have not...At least it’s still in a very preliminary stage if anything.

Is there anything else that you’d like to add? I was wondering if I have any more questions from what I jotted down. One other thing that came up, as far as things to do as responses, as prescriptions for the public for disinformation, aside from asking social media companies ...

Potentially, if you were asked for a response to the messaging that the PRC sends to this government, to this country, would you say that it’s a response to continue being open, continue being transparent?

Is there anything else that you would want to add, especially on transparency in general and promoting dialogue in general? You’ve called it a vaccination for disinformation several times. On how that can be expanded and continued? For example, your own transparency policy, do you think that’s something that the ...