Bye-bye.

Thank you very much.

Thank you [inaudible 42:59] and thank you very much for the answers.

I think these are all my questions.

I’m just a journalist, but I see this should be the next phase of the development of how we deal with the digital part of our life and the digital technology. Should we fear it? Should we embrace it? If we embrace it, how should we do that?

Should we fear it? Should we embrace it? How should we embrace it? What to expect from artificial intelligence because if we go through the development of the digital technology, I’m not an expert like you are.

I think we are running out of time so I would run to the fourth area which is the artificial intelligence. As I mentioned, you don’t have to be a fan of dystopia and science fiction movies or books to fear the artificial intelligence.

Pardon me. You do see a role for the government to teach people to trust?

You do see a role for the government in making a difference between fake news, real news, conspiracy theories and the reality. It leads through the open government, the digital infrastructure and the digital participatory democracy. If I…

Fake news, the real news and the conspiracy theories run the real theories. It should be important to teach people to differentiate between those two kinds of things. Right now as we could see in America, you have equal chambers, you don’t really have another kind of opinions.

Just imagine half of the Facebook users in America would join and send their ideas to a government portal. I can’t imagine that. That’s a huge win for Taiwan and a huge win for the Taiwanese digital social system. That’s a different kind of situation. My question would have been ...

I understand. That’s a very unique Taiwanese situation. It’s, I think, a big success of having a trusted government portal, if you will via .tw which can attract half of the audience of Facebook in a country like Taiwan. I can’t imagine the same proportion of any kind of government ...

Maybe the social word is not properly connected to the social media but still it has a big power. If you talk about Reddit and if you talk about the Taiwanese equivalent of Reddit, this is a much smaller proportion of the populace than the proportion which uses the companies ...

How should the social media work when every day you check your Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, Snapchat, whatever account? I’m not saying that everyone lives on the social media, but it became such a big thing in everyone’s life. We don’t really know what to do with it.

Should they be regulated? Should they be as open as a utility? About all those things in the light of what happened at the Capitol more with Trump’s Twitter account, so how could we use the social media?

Which go to your ministerial portfolio but to your expert on the digital. In the light of what happened in American with Donald Trump and Twitter and Facebook, what role for the social media because social media became such a big power in the interaction between the government and the ...

I think I asked enough questions about the pandemic and Taiwanese government’s working and open government. May I turn to the other two fields?

During the pandemic, how much did you close your borders? If a foreigner arrived to Taiwan, what measures did you do or otherwise did he or she need to take?

How difficult it is to protect all the data you gather together because Taiwan is in a special situation when we talk about China? What measures you should take to have all the data you gather protected.

Going back to the data you gather as a government, the more data you have, the more protection you need for the data to [inaudible 26:17] . You are a hacker or used to be.

It’s against the law to put everything on a health card. [inaudible 23:56] the secrets and where are the limits?

We have a different database for say the location you live and a different database for your health, the different database for your work. You cannot put them together.

…the medical record. It would be impossible in Hungary because it would be combining databases and especially sensitive information about your health. I just want to understand how far you can go with collecting data of [inaudible 23:33] because…

When I went to this hospital in Taipei and they showed me that card and they told me that everything is on that card including your previous diagnosis, including the…

We used to have during the socialism a number as you do. One of my kids he doesn’t because it was forbidden at the time and still it is. It’s an 11-digit number which is unique to you. The constitutional court decided that the government cannot use this number to ...

It’s going to be a little bit longer question because I’d like to explain the situation. Hungary, the Constitutional Court in the early ‘90s, I think it was in ‘92 or ‘93, decided that we could no longer use the personal identification number for data gathering purposes.

I did have a personal experience when I was in Taiwan at the first time. I was in a hospital and I was shown the…I don’t know how you call it. The health registry card or health [inaudible 22:05] . It was quite astonishing because…

[inaudible 20:49] GDPR it’s an opt-in. I suppose you also have the opt-in.

There is a big difference between the American system and the Europeans. The American system with all these privacy rules and you have all the small letter knowledge, the end of if you agree or not. In America, it is an opt-out thing…

Another question about privacy, secrets and open governance, so we have the GDPR in you?

It was quite unique learning that in the mid ‘90s. He or she can learn the letters except for the secrets. Where are the limits of the open government in Taiwan? You cannot of course be very open about the strategy against the pressure of Beijing. The part of…

It’s a little bit of a science fiction, but I’d like to go back to the idea of open government. How open could it be? Because when I was in Sweden in ‘94 when they were preparing to join the EU, I was told that any Swede can go to ...

Continuous democracy facilitated through the digital means which of course [inaudible 17:37] available 20 years ago.

That there is not a simple connection between the voters and the government in every four or three or five years when there are elections, but you do have day-to-day between the population and government.

If I may sound philosophical, in the West, we have the participant into the democracy when the have elections, but we have nothing like you do in Taiwan to have the instant connection between [inaudible 17:03] and the government, and [inaudible 17:06] which was just an interesting talking about. Do ...

How should we trust what they are saying now? You didn’t have that problem because even before the pandemic, even before COVID, there was a trust between the government and the people. How did you build that?

You must have a trust in the government even before the pandemic. I’m talking from Hungary and that’s our problem here because even before coronavirus came to Hungary, we didn’t trust the government.

I think we have a two-pronged question, but I start with one. To have that trust right now during the time of the epidemic or pandemic, you have to have that trust beforehand. You cannot just build that trust when the COVID strikes.

How did you build the trust through the years? How did you use the source you mentioned to build that trust through years and to use that trust now?

You also keep mentioning both you and in Taiwan that to counter the COVID virus one of the most important things is to trust the government, to trust that what the government says it’s true and to follow what the government says you should be following.

You mentioned the dog with both [inaudible 8:28] and smartphones, so having technology to fight, to influence people, to go for the context when you had an exposure to the COVID virus. How is it possible to do that compare to what happened also with the SARS?

You are responsible for also the digital ministry. What was the role of the digital tech thing, technology in fighting the coronavirus? I read the [inaudible 8:19] you played and there should be…

Regional I meant [inaudible 6:59] more or less problem, but now we have a global problem. You do have the experience. You just cannot really share it with WHO.

Regional?

How useful is it for Taiwan that you cannot share your experience with WHO or WHA because Beijing doesn’t let you to work together with the WHO? I can imagine that it can be frustrating. You have a good example how to treat pandemics like that, how to treat the ...

Not even 2003, you didn’t have lockdown or something?

Did you have any problems with…I’m not talking about now because Taiwan remained open as far as I could tell from the news report. Did you have any problems people protesting against lockdowns [inaudible 5:43] because right now…

On the other hand, so you credit the SARS that you were so much prepared for the next one for this year’s event. Do you think that Europe we can learn the same lesson because we didn’t have SARS at the time so we are in the first grade, you ...

I think we need to use it because right now we have a very strict doctor telling us [laughs] which sometimes is a bit scary. We should also use…We are in a learning curve in Europe right now. We are strict and we have very strict orders what to do. ...

I work as a group [inaudible 2:25] .