That is so impressive that people really participate. Can you talk about the range, like how many people are already participating in which forms, on which platforms, maybe give an overview?

If I got you right, the transparency also actually supports a specific behavior of the people who are observed by the cameras. Is that the point? Can you maybe explore that a bit further?

That’s very clever. [laughs] You mentioned already the example of Uber. Once how to talking about the moment when Uber actually was coming to the market here and tried to do lobbying work, you did a special move at this moment. I think you filmed the whole thing. Can you ...

Let’s take one small step back, can you also describe again, what is the pol.is platform at all, and why didn’t you just use Facebook for that?

The anti… [laughs] We see a different behavior. What’s your secret sauce? How do you manage to get a pro social network instead of antisocial one?

Confrontation and ideologies, right? Normally, we see when people discuss online in a lot of cases, like on the conventional social networks like the corporate ones.

You talk about the lack, the consensus instead of the…

Yeah. People will understand what that is like…We are in a big city. Let’s start again. So interesting.

No, actually I think…

Perfect moment. Perfect timing.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

Talking about consensus, you actually invented quite a lot of new tools, digital tools, and part of it were also the consensus tools. Can you describe what that is like in very general terms, so that people were not familiar with digital software can understand what it is? Very, very ...

In which way is democracy a technology itself?

Wow. That was impressive speech. You already mentioned that actually democracy and information technology were invented here at more or less the same time. Maybe to sum it up again, how did it influence your take on what democracy is? You have a specific view on democracy.

Why did you originally feel the need to hack the government?

How can people hack? Do they need to learn programming or what can be the different versions, the different ways to take part in hacking?

Yeah, but hacking is also kind of an attitude in life, maybe. What are your convictions? What is your attitude in life? What are your strong beliefs as a White Hat hacker?

That is beautiful. [laughs] Hacking is not only like a profession maybe or, is it even a profession? I’m not sure even.

In general terms, what is your purpose?

If I got you right, you have all the skills a hacker has, but you use them for a different purpose.

What does that mean, and what’s the difference to the cliché maybe some people have about hackers and what a hacker does?

Yeah, that’s…If I got it right, you are a civic hacker or, some also say, a White Hat hacker.

All right, you have a very interesting background, so let’s start with this and maybe you can just briefly introduce yourself. I think you did it before. [laughs] Where do you come from? What’s your background? How come that you are now digital minister?