Exactly. It fits in with your human rights agenda, but it also fits in with the digital agenda, the agenda that the president opened up to Southeast Asia, where most of the workers on the vessels come from, to improve the reputation of Taiwan in Indonesia and the Philippines, the ...

Whereas in the last 10 years, Spain has managed to build a reputation as being one of the strongest proponents of legal fisheries. We think the same opportunity is here for Taiwan to change its reputation to being not somebody who’s just followed an EU warning, but a country that’s ...

We think there’s a real opportunity now to build on the reforms that have been made to flip that narrative. The example I always give is Spain, which for many years was seen as sort of the bad boy of the oceans, as being the one that was always stealing ...

What we’re trying to do is push, as you’d expect, for countries to close that gap. I think there’s an opportunity for Taiwan, which to be frank, over historical years, has a reputation in Taiwan as being a great, progressive country for human rights, but in the oceans, had a ...

It’s the same 10 priorities that we’re pushing everywhere. These are the ones here. In recent months, we’ve shared it with the Taiwanese government, and we’ve been very impressed by the engagement in terms of highlighting where Taiwan has already met some of our recommendations, but where there’s still a ...

That, English and the Mandarin.

Yes. We’ll send you that.

Perfect. That’s what we’re pushing. We’ve consolidated all of our views on fisheries into one set of 10 recommendations for transparency, and they’re in there. We have them also…

It’s always the same message of the need to fundamentally use transparency to change structurally how fisheries works.

Exactly. That’s why fisheries needs an extra effort to be transparent. Our main push globally on fisheries is to increase transparency. If we’re talking to the EU, if we’re talking to Japan or anyone, we’re always pushing the same message, which is why we’re very happy for you to publish ...

Precisely. That makes people more from their operating…

Trying to understand, structurally, why these problems happen around the world, our analysis is that fisheries is a unique industry and how it lacks transparency by its nature, as it’s happening far away from people’s viewpoint. It’s not like a factory where at any time, you can walk in and ...

More recently, here in Taiwan. We’ve been really pleased to see reforms that have been made here in Taiwan and the commitment from the government to change. It’s been a really positive experience over recent years in Taiwan.

We did a lot of work with the Korean fleet. We’re happy to see how Korea changed over recent years. In Thailand, we did a lot of work where you not only had illegal fishing, but also slavery on board vessels in Thailand. They have had a positive change.

The biggest issue we’ve been working on for the longest time is fisheries and the problems that illegal fishing presents both to the environment, but also to the people who depend on fish for their livelihoods and for people working on the vessel.

Thank you so much for your time. It was really appreciated. We’re from the Environmental Justice Foundation. We’re based in London, but we work across Europe, Asia, and Africa on issues where environmental insecurity impacts people’s human rights.

Should I just kick off quickly?