Wow, OK. We only have 23 minutes left, I guess. We have to rush a bit. You don’t have more time, right? I’m already taking very much of your time.
Maybe the last one?
That’s one example, the tax filing system evolving in many different applications. Maybe two, three other ones?
Maybe we could call that circular tech.
You’re going to use the same system?
What for you are the major examples and major successes of your digital participation initiatives? Like, real policy outcomes, changes.
Yeah, of course, there are always some proposals. Just my question is maybe are you happy with the overall participation? It could always be more, right? What’s your assessment?
Two things, maybe. From what I saw just currently, not many people are really participating, apparently.
That was long ago, yeah. There are many nice little proposals, like just now, there are proposals like increase the stops of two trains on the line between Ilan and Hualien and stuff like that.
Wow. Talking about the current forms of digital participation and your platforms, one major example, or one major use case that is mostly mentioned is this Uber case.
You call it adhocracy.
That’s not your goal, of course?
Absolutely, yeah. We’ve talked about it. I was just curious, why would she use a term that everybody understands differently, the way you were just describing it, like replacing humans?
Yeah.
Oh, wow, OK. Back to my questions written here. One of your collaborators once said, “We can replace the entire government by AI in 500 years. I have no problem saying that.” From what I know about you, that’s not necessarily your goal, is it?
I guess you also do think a lot of, most of the time, in English, because tech is just so much English, of course.
Ah, OK, Taiwanese Holo. Not Táiyǔ, but Taiwanese Holo?
Tâigí?
Oh, yeah, all the time?
You don’t?
You must think in Chinese as well when you speak Chinese.
You just said you think in English.
Don’t you think there is something getting lost in this process?
That’s encouraging that even someone as clever as you can forget foreign languages.
Wow. Is that how you learned German as well?
I know.
Yeah, of course, right. Where were you in Germany, actually in Berlin?
Taiwan wasn’t really a democracy in the beginning of the ‘90s, either, right?
I think Taiwan had their first really open, democratic elections in ‘96, right?
It resonates with Taiwan’s history as well a little bit, at least?
What kind of impression did it leave on you?
That must have been the first time you were confronted with Nazi footage, right?
It still is, I think.
What kind of memories do you have related to that?
I think we are already not in the structure of my interview anymore, because I wanted to talk about your one year in Germany as well, anyway. You just mentioned it. Let’s talk about it. You were 11, I think?
No worries. You just mentioned Hong Kong, so what’s your feeling about the current situation there?
Other things as well. Maybe just quickly, before we restart…
I’m pretty sure we’ll talk…
Let’s continue where we stopped last time, more or less.
Right. That’s a very beautiful line by Leonard Cohen, right? “There is a crack in everything.”
Right. These pans, what kind of idea do they convey, or is it more the overall thing?
Japanese?
Very original. [laughs] Very good. You are wearing Taiwanese designers only, or?
Even within the government…
Yeah. I think there was recently a video by the Ministry of Economic Affairs, where you posed really as model. They even said, “Model, Audrey Tang.”
When one looks at your Twitter and Facebook profiles, and also these videos you’re doing quite often, one might think there’s an implicit statement. You’re quite good at posing. It’s not meant in a negative way. Many people love you for that, I guess.
Is there an aesthetic interest in fashion as well, or?
That fits very well with your SDG goals.
Circular design means like recycling and doing new clothes out of old ones.
I heard there are quite a few Taiwanese fashion designers, but then they are mostly shunned by the richer Taiwanese people apparently, who want to buy more Gucci and stuff. Is that true?
