OK. Thank you very much Thank you so much.

OK. Thank you very much. Is there anything else you’d like to add that I didn’t…

Can you elaborate.

OK. Thank you very much, Minister Tang. One last question. I read that you only spent two days per week here.

But it seems very vague in a way, at least what I read.

To frame the conversation around what constitutes as infiltration.

Do you think such a law is necessary?

The Anti-Infiltration law, and the opposition’s criticism of saying, “This is a very corrosive way to…”

Yeah. Since we were talking about this kind of disinformation or “fake news,” what do you think about this law that was recently passed?

Right. This will continue?

What’s the response from the public?

It’s not a lot of time to come up with a…

How did you come up with this kind of idea to deal with humor? That seems very unique for a government.

Can you make an example of that?

How can a government deal with this, or should it not deal with it at all?

It’s like biodiversity, more resilient against a mind virus, if you will. We’re remarkably resilient but of course, just like elsewhere in the world, there is a lot of disinformation.

Any place that has a room for discord can amplify that discord with the pathways to outrage. In Taiwan, we’re remarkably resilient thanks to our multiculture, transcultural perspective. It’s very hard to craft a message that will simultaneously make all the different cultures in Taiwan enraged.

It is a big problem, of course, worldwide. It is not only a Taiwan problem. The social media makes it easier for one angry person to mobilize tens of thousands of people in outrage. This is a general problem, it’s not just a Taiwan problem.

In Taiwan, the word news and journalism translate to the same word, [Mandarin] . Because of that, it’s difficult for me to say the F word in Mandarin without offending journalists, and because of filial piety, I cannot do so. [laughs] Because of that, what we are saying now is ...

Audrey. We don’t use the term, the F word, You’re a journalist. You’re OK to use that. I respect that.

Currently how big of a problem is this kind of news infiltration from China in Taiwan, a fake news that one hears. There was recently a law that was passed against it.

I understand that, but this kind of open society and also this transparency from the government side, does it make it vulnerable?

Does it also make it vulnerable to say for attacks from China?

At the same time, mainland China is very close to Taiwan, and there’s a lot of influence. What kind of challenges does this pose to the government, your government, in Taiwan?

What do you think about that?

It’s exactly the opposite.

You just mentioned the certain jurisdiction. This kind of transparency – because I live in China right now, it just seems to say exactly…

The long-term goal would be then that the government is not necessary anymore?

Also, you don’t give commands, I read, right?

Not radical meaning that everything has to be transparent?

You already mentioned the advantages of this radical…Radical transparency you said means starting at the root.

OK. I see. That’s just also open for everyone to see?

Sorry, to understand, this is with the AIT?

Right.

Are these thoughts…

What are their reactions to that?

Not yet meaning the goal is that everyone is at some point?

It’s also for government, governmental meetings?

In general, on transparency, a transparent government, can there be too much transparency?

I also want to talk a bit about the transparency. Why is that so important to have, say, for example, even this kind of conversation recorded and published?

That’s very encouraging, actually, for…

That’s something that’s not tied to…

Will this continue even if there’s another…I mean, it doesn’t look like it right now, but if there’s another administration with…?

There was no, say, hesitance from the government or from the civil servants’ side?

Was this difficult to convince or deal with these different ministries who were in charge of that? Was that new for them?

Pretty much everything is possible, right, with just a few exceptions?

What was the challenges in digging for you…

Can we talk a little bit about the sandbox, which I found very interesting as well?

Compared to before.

Using this way of communicating with people, taking people into the decision process, does it make it easier for everyone to accept the final outcome?