All right.

Again, thank you for your time.

That was inspiring.

Thank you very much.

Building on Susana’s question, in many countries, it’s very easy to be innovator outside of government. There’s a perception that once you’re inside government, it’s harder. Are you finding that?

Great, fantastic.

Have you got any -- I was going to say Harvard, but I should use a UK example -- any UK business schools coming to you and talking to you about how you could take this concept and apply it in an organization?

Very, very, very interesting, very inspiring.

Yeah.

It’s fascinating, isn’t it?

Then you have to try and add on the interaction and the common good on top, which is not that good.

It’s a consensus building?

Start where there is consensus, and then build.

What are the things that make it successful? Are there some very obvious things that you’re trying to encourage people to adopt, or is it very situation-specific?

This is not specific to Taiwan, but it’s a global issue. How are parents reacting to the idea in Taiwan?

Social enterprises, so how do the parents feel about that very, very, that you’re basically breaking down the entire education ethos and rebuilding it again from scratch? That’s quite a big leap for parents who feel very safe in a system where they can see standardized results and kids tested.

That’s a big challenge...

How much is it reaching through into education?

...about just having them understanding social enterprises. Is that something that’s happening in Taiwan as well?

I think you saw the video at the end of SEWF. Scotland has done a very, very good job in educating very, very young kids...

You plan to host that in Taiwan?

It’s very, very widespread.

I see you’ve got a great interest in social enterprise, the SEWF, and etc. How do you see social enterprise being part of that harnessing of community willpower, and how well advanced is the environment in Taiwan for encouraging social enterprises? Are there big challenges?

Very easy.

What about as a process to encourage community action? There might be an issue in a particular community that actually the solution is not regulation or legislation, but actually it’s just about a community deciding how they’re going to work together to tackle a problem. There are examples of where ...

Can it end with a movement?

Do you see this embrace of sort of popular will and popular opinion harnessing popular will and popular opinion? Do you see that only being channeled into legislative decisions or do you also see this as...Does the process have to end with a legislation change?

I saw this word "civic hacker." Is this civic hacking?

I can’t think of any others, but has there been any criticism of it? Is there a backlash against the process anywhere?

Rather than have to persuade people, you’re actually bringing them along on the journey?

Yeah...large parts of the population. What’s the risk that, because government wants to be seen to be responding to popular will, all of those things come under pressure for being sidelined because they want to get more things that have gone through this type of process through the statute bits?

I’m trying to think of an example, but I can’t. Things that maybe there isn’t widespread public opinion on but, for whatever reason, they’ve got to get through, let’s say, some international treaty or MOU or whatever it is they need to do. It’s not something that’s going to engage ...

I’m trying to think of all the challenges. What’s the danger that...a governance have to do a lot of things. They have to legislate about a lot of things that maybe aren’t...

It sounds wonderful.

Does the digital aspect of the process favor more digital natives? Is it giving voice to particularly younger people who might be more digitally able? How are older parts of the population, the less digitally able...

Yes.

How important is that aspect to driving consensus? Do you...?

It’s been going for longer than a year?

A year is a relatively short time in government. Are there any examples yet of where something’s gone from consultation, through, into legislation?

How long has been going on?

It’s great to see.

It’s very nice that you’ve made it into a very collaborative process, rather than a negotiation process.

It’s an amazing idea. Where did the idea come from?

You actually come with a better solution and that works out.

How much does this play to people or groups of people who already have good lobbying skills? How much does it reach new people who maybe have never really participated strongly in government or policy before?

How difficult are the barriers? I’m going to be devil’s advocate...

That’s not an issue? You don’t need to push for it?

How easy is it to get the general public to be civic? One of the things that we discussed in social enterprise is it’s great, but you need more social entrepreneurs in the future. How strong is the desire to be civically engaged in Taiwan? Or, is part of your ...

It’s actually beneficial for everybody? It’s not a winner or a loser situation?

Tell me a bit about the different objectives that you’ve got in those different areas. What are the challenges?