That would be an interesting conversation...

That’s really interesting.

The UK cloud is also really growing quickly.

That’s great.

The UK is doing some really interesting things, as well.

I think they’re actually ahead. I think their digital initiatives are ahead of a lot of countries. The BC gov cloud platform is becoming a life of its own. We worked with them really closely on that. I think it’s really interesting to see the dynamic.

I was just going to ask you if you’re working...I met with the digital minister in British Columbia and we had a really interesting conversation.

OK, so there’s...

Is everything in English on Sandstorm?

That’s your evening job.

Task and project management.

It’s almost a marketplace as well.

That’s Sandstorm? That’s the same thing? Is that for agencies as well as citizens? Anyone can use that platform?

That’s interesting. Your title and role, I’m finding it all over the world that a lot of governments are building an open source cloud platform for developers, either citizen developers or other government agencies. Is that something that...

That’s interesting. Is there collaboration a lot with Taiwan’s tech industry with the stuff you’re doing in the universities?

That’s amazing.

Standards.

It’s awesome.

Yes, it is. I caught that symbol as well.

Excellent. I love it.

Nice.

What do you know of Red Hat? How are we working together with the ministry now?

Interesting.

Are you involved at all in any initiatives to also increase the number of women getting into coding and to STEM?

That’s correct.

I like that.

Maybe that’s a model we can borrow, almost have people come and then take it back. That’s brilliant.

I think we can learn from this.

You’re going to have to come back to this and talk about what those people are finding, their experience. I want to hear more.

That’s good to know. We’re on our own if something happens while we’re here.

That’s right.

Whether they want to listen to it or not.

Vendor or whatever.

Interesting.

What’s been your experience with that so far?

The thing I find most interesting in talking to governments all over the world is, and I know you do, too, their attempt to try to become more transparent in the open source way when it is almost the opposite of how government functions, which is much more hierarchical, command ...

I’m curious, in addition to your mandate with the Digital Ministry, are you also taking that open source culture and trying to instill more of that transparency?

Good.

Are you still contributing to the open source communities?

It is important because, as you know, most of the open source code repositories of the world are sitting in GitHub right now. It’s in their interest to do that. Microsoft, as you know, has become a huge open source fan.

He was saying it was true. They really are hands-off. He’s reporting to Satya. It’s almost the same structure as what IBM is talking about.

It’s so interesting that you say that. I was meeting with the gentleman who is now going to be the CEO of GitHub. I was telling my team that the analogy is very similar. Microsoft specifically has said, "They are an independent company. We need them to be independent. Their ...

That’s right.

That’s right. That’s our world.

Fantastic.

We were excited to see that.

You can start talking about your scrum board out front.

It will be an interesting exercise, definitely. I was really excited to read more about your work. I had read a little bit about you, so it’s very interesting.

I’m trying to, yes.

It’s the power of horizontal, that’s right.