Thank you.

Really, really good.

[laughs] That’s amazing. It’s been so fascinating talking to you. Thank you very much.

Will you do the physical hug as well?

You actually meet these people physically?

How do you do this?

Trolls? As in people who abuse you on the Internet?

Is what?

Oh, really? Wow. What do you do for fun? A lot of this stuff is very serious, so what do you do for fun?

That sounds like a meditation, almost.

With your sleeping?

With everything?

Eight hours? You always get eight hours?

Two other of these I’d like. You don’t have to answer these, because they’re a little bit personal. You seem to work so hard, so how many hours a night sleep do you work?

You are? OK.

It sounds like you’re on a spiritual mission.

Do you have an idea about that, or do you think this is a life work thing that you’re doing now?

Do you have an ambition? Do you think at some point, you’ll be done, and you’ll think, "OK, we’re there with government now. All the systems are in place. All these people are in place. It can work without me," and you’ll step back?

I know you said you didn’t have a contract. I wonder if it’s difficult to work with you. I get the impression that you could at any point just think, "I want to do something else now, and I’m going to leave," or that somebody wants to have a meeting ...

My last question is about how can an anarchist work within a government structure? I thought that anarchists were something, they were opposed to government structures.

Do you think the government then thought, "OK, well, we need to engage with these people, because then there’ll be stability, and there will be general agreement about the way country should move forward"?

There’s an expression in English. I don’t know if it translates. It’s, "Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer."

Is it the threat of it? That sounds like a threat.

Why do you think the Taiwanese government wanted an anarchist to work with them?

One of the things I wanted to ask you about is your gender identity. Is there any connection between your gender identity and your interest in social enterprise?

How truly invested is the Taiwanese government in working with social entrepreneurs?

Did you always feel like you had power, even before you had the vote, because of your knowledge?

You’re doing things differently, aren’t you? You are changing things.

Altering, shall we say?

Did you always have an ambition to change the world, I know it’s a cliché, in this way, when you were younger?

That’s what you’re doing, is you’re bringing people together. You’re breaking down silos, it seems. That’s how it feels, the way that you were talking.

Also, that really, you’re a communications specialist.

Which you are.

I sort of thought of you as a techno wiz.

It seems to me that what you are doing, the more I talk to you...

Why should social entrepreneurs connect with governments, and how should they work with them?

I think you kind of answered my next question. I was going to say, why should governments all connect with social entrepreneurs, and how should they work with them? I think in a way, you’re suggesting that maybe I should even turn that question around.

That’s true. That’s a good way of putting it.

What do in your fellow ministers think?

What do your fellow ministers think of the fact that civil society might put them out of a job at some point?

They’re not doing it for money, they just want to make the information...?

People are doing this of their own accord, and they’re not doing it for money?

The shadow government? OK.

Why was Taiwan’s Digital Minister involved with a place that will produce business solutions to social problems?

Presumably, they can make more money if they’re making progress.

Do you mean that they had the idea for them to do other things, rather than just sell one kind of thing?

Micro-businesses, really.

Unique.

I was going to ask you about any notable social enterprises that might have emerged in your lab as well.

It seems to me that when you’ve got this kind of participation, what it’s going to do is effectively, like you said yourself, you spend enough money design, you’re going to get there. In a way, this is saving government money plus it’s going to make them more popular.