Thank you.

Maybe, I’m thinking next year AVPN could be panel to work with.

I think that AVPN has an annual conference every year, this year we kind of have an Asia-based, right?

I really loved it. Great advice.

I’m very inspired to see what you’re up to.

Do you guys have any thoughts or questions?

Yeah, interesting.

OK, great.

The other is tie the procurement in the back-end to some kind of bond rating so the future government can’t back out. I don’t know what then in the Taiwanese context would be the appropriate way to solve that.

The other big procurement question people have always asked us is, what happens after four years? In the US, we have exactly the same problem and we’ve kind of pressed into it, one, instead of a bank account, the current government puts in money and then that lasts for the ...

Do you have any thoughts on how we could make it have the best of increasing trust over time?

I’m actually very curious to see how this tool metamorphosizes within the Taiwanese context. I don’t know if you have a particular vision for how we could adapt it to further your goals in the innovation front.

My sister’s a human geographer. You got it right.

No. I’m good for now. Why don’t you talk about policy...?

It took us seven years to get the federal government into...

I see. Similar to the States, where the copies of the...you hear the first-movers.

...collaborator, how you advise us.

That’s really interesting. Thank you. The takeaway for us sounds like, as we go through this project, look at early title first. If we need data, we should go to the NDC and see whether or not they...

Got it. That’s really helpful.

That’s great.

We’re trying to integrate it with all the other databases at the government level and also the nonprofits. Who are the data integration people in Taiwan on the government side who would be able to do that or do you need like an academic to help out?

Great solution. My doctorate is exactly on that, which is integration with the nonprofits’ data sets. One thing that we’ve been trying to do recently is work with the universities to get access to large federal databases, for example, tax, where it’s centered, and foster care databases at a horizontal ...

Is there a particular area where that would be most useful given that you already have a open data culture for the government?

Where would this be most useful in encouraging the data openness culture across the ministries?

If you shared much data people would react, "Actually, your program isn’t working." This way we actually find that it reverses the incentives, because the government says, "Hey, I’m not going to pay back the private investors unless we manage it really well and show that it works."

I think you’ve answered our question of where the lowest hanging fruit is. I’d like to ask where the greatest need is. Our strategy in the US actually has been to use this finance tool to encourage data openness. Here’s why, oftentimes the reason why the government is siloed is ...

Got it.

I see.

Oh, wow. Great.

Ray chatted with us earlier about it.

For each person, we can tell you transparently how much it costs us to put them in jail. We’ll pay you the difference in cost. The question I want to get your thought on this, which of these four issue areas are there already data champions, or most transparent data? ...

Exactly. Oftentimes, for example, to give you a concrete example of the one we did in Boston, we did one on drug recidivism where the government said, we’ll do a clinical trial, like a control trial, we used our jail database to measure how many people go back to jail ...

Yes. As you see from the structure, it all depends how you get the data to measure the results.

What we heard today actually was that there are a couple of areas that were top of mind to everybody. There were four areas. One in drug recidivism, one in long-term care, one in healthcare and the last one, early childhood education.

What we’re trying to do at the end of the day is move from this world where the time we spend in social services without tracking, to one where we do it more reflexively but how we get there is by using data to pave my results and then having ...

Yeah, I would love to get some of your thoughts, actually, about the pay for success work that we’ve been doing, and some of our case studies today. Maybe just by way a introduction, I should tell you a bit more about pay for success, and some of what we ...

Oh, really? Interesting. We could really use some of that in Singapore.

We were talking about vTaiwan, very exciting.

We’re just admiring how progressive the government here is, open and transparent.