As a follow up, can I just ask, it also depends on the society where this AI being developed… If you think about in PRC, there is a very different approach to AI. Minister, here AI is being developed in a democracy, but if it’s being developed instead in a ...

A race to safety.

Very nice. One more, just thinking about AI, this is the last one. Where do you see it going? You’ve talked about, I think you see AI or the internet really as a tool that can be used. It’s not good or bad, it’s just a tool. But, because you ...

Interesting. Um, you did write your own job description.

Instead of the O, there’s a zero.

I learned a phrase from you looking at some of the talks you gave, which was fork the government, like fork in the road or a piece of cutlery, a fork. Can you explain how that plays into Taiwanese, it’s not really Taiwanese politics, is it? Can you tell me ...

I’m a big advocate of sleep, so I understand your explanation on that. Just one or two more, and then I will let you go.

So, you sleep well?

Key Performance Index for our listeners.

And does it ever keep you awake at night, the worry of it?

And do you, because when we think of cyber-attacks and some of the figures that you quoted at the beginning, they are quite shocking in a way. And do you have the funding and the people to be able to combat all those attacks that are coming, which I imagine ...

Is it difficult to remain neutral?

I should say, the previous administration, which is a person who was with the KMT, as opposed to the DPP, who are currently in power.

And there is an election looming in January. If the party changes, then what happens?

What is the biggest challenge?

Why are you such an optimist, do you think?

There was, with some of your initiatives for a digital democracy in Taiwan, a freedom of expression we’ve talked about, but no reply button on some of the projects. Talk to me about that.

I looked at that list, actually, and you were ahead of the United Kingdom. I think I’ll need… Who was ahead of you? Iceland, Costa Rica, Canada? Have I got that right? I’m not sure about my number three. And number four, I think, was Taiwan. And that’s for Freedom ...

What happened?

You do have the questions and people are speaking out. Freedom of speech, freedom of expression, freedom of assembly here in Taiwan. How would you describe the last few years for Taiwan’s democracy?

Okay, so you feel it’s really about framing the question as well.

But there must be certain issues that Taiwan is facing that you will never come to a resolution no matter what process you put in place through digital means.

It sounds very positive and optimistic. I believe you’re an optimist.

But I know you have looked at carefully as a minister for digital affairs about how people interact and how you can get over some of the disagreements, the polarizing issues that often happen at the beginning of a conversation. Do you want to expand on that?

It is interesting, though, those aspects that you mentioned there as a demonstrator. Because I was reading a story actually today about diaphobia. It was a new word for me, and it’s people having a fear of real dialogue. And there’s various articles that are being written about it.

So, you don’t like the word ‘protest’?

What’s the difference?

How was that transition? Also, how does it feel, I suppose, to be in this seat after being in the movement previously?

And now you are a government minister. There were many actually, from the Sunflower Movement that also did move into government roles.

Okay. Let me talk about… You were a protester once.

So, it’s… I’m having a look at some of the examples there. Heal Michigan was one, another about incarcerated adults. So, it’s almost becoming, in this case, AI voice for grassroots movements?

Okay, and let’s talk a little bit about your initiatives that you’ve had. I read about your alignment assemblies. Could you explain them to our global listener that does not know anything about them?

Some might say, is that not groupthink? That a lot of people in the same sphere are going towards the same way of thinking. I mean, when we talk about AI, some of the issues that you will know better than anyone, it’s only as good as the data that ...

So, this is, I think, a variation on the wisdom of crowds, in a way. So, that theory that assumes the knowledge of a crowd results in better decision-making or innovation or problem-solving than that of a single individual.

So, some of the concepts you’re putting out are really what I would expect from a behavioral psychologist. I know you have been named by Time one of the most influential people in AI in 2023. Is it some sort of intersection between those two that drives you?

I don’t know, how do you get people prepared? How do you speak to them about a potential threat?

People have different views. Some people want the status quo. There’s some that might push for formal independence, and a tiny minority, really, that would talk about reunification. But there is a fear there, I think, when I speak to some people about what might happen in the future, particularly, ...

Are you able to use that methodology in any way when it comes, and I’m gonna come back to hostilities with mainland China, for example?

Okay, a pluralist.

So, you really are non-binary.

Is that a joke?

Nobody?

Really? Nothing?

Interesting. As we talk about disinformation, or indeed cyber-attacks, you have used the phrase ‘humor over rumor.’ Talk me through that.

And is that short numbers, the 111 that you talk about, is that cyber-attack-proof?

So, what do you do as Minister for Digital Affairs to try and protect Taiwan, and I suppose also raise awareness for those people?

So, how do you do that? Because I’m just thinking of some of the young people I met that were really thinking about preparing for the first time, okay? And they were trying to become more aware of what to look out for, what might be disinformation, and what might ...

I went to some civil defense classes, and at one of them, they talked about the possibility of a cyber-attack when it came to the threat from China being much more likely than a missile attack, for example. And I was wondering, are you thinking about that? In what way, ...

I’ve been in Taiwan a few days now, actually, and I might just jump into something that I was doing on the first days that I was thinking about on my way here to you.

[laughter] I don’t think I’ve had that as an introduction before. So, thank you, and great to have you here with us.