Thank you.

That’s perfect, yes. Fantastic.

Yes, it’s perfect. [laughs]

Fantastic. Thank you very much.

Loomio?

If people would to participate, somehow, in what you’re doing here. Would you have something in your mind that you say, "Well, let’s do this or that," as a next step? Should they just come up with an idea and write an email or something like that?

Fantastic. For you. Thank you very much.

Yes, I can transfer it to online sales of cigarettes in Austria.

Yes. Did you have this kind of discussion also discussed with participation tools and experiences here in Taiwan?

Obviously, the others, they’re saying, "The government should take care of that and should ban it."

Smoking, as a topic, is very controversial. At the moment, we have a very big discussion going on about smoking in bars and restaurants. On that topic, Freedom Party said people should rather take their own decision, like restaurants owners, what they want to do. They want the people, as ...

At my core job, taking care of tobacco shops. What we do is we provide tobacco shops to people with disability. We’re saying that’s not a normal market so we interfer and link it to a social problem.

How important is trust in this field that they’re working with, and is that something that you always had good experience on? Did you ever got disappointed as well.

Yes.

Great.

Those fellows, the fellows that you are sending, the more or less, do understand your process well? Is that the way, or...?

Do you think a kind of cooperation could work with somebody in Austria? Could that work, and would you be interested in cooperation?

Are there many people like you in the Taiwan ecosystem?

You share things that, do you think, "Well..."?

You want to share?

Yeah, but this is sometimes difficult.

You work by volunteer association meaning?

When you think about what makes your work difficult?

The world is taking care of the goals, and you’re taking care of this. What are your challenges at the moment? Where do you see the challenges that you are facing at the moment?

This is...?

Oh, wow.

You’re working with Taiwan.

I do understand where you’re sitting.

Probably I have to think about it, with my English, where’s the difference?

This, like open government. Where should this lead to? Is this your vision? Is your vision, ends up with the frontier of Taiwan, or is your vision contribution to the way we think about government and democracy in the world? What is your vision?

What is your answer to the question, what is your vision with that? What do you want this to be in, let’s say, 20 years?

Double diamond?

Like sharing and buying, or something else?

What is your picture on that ecosystem?

Besides being part of public administration and learn by sharing there’s a private market where companies say, "I’m consulting in public management, and I tell you how to do it." How do you see this mixture of the public and private? Wasn’t there any private consulting company ever coming to ...

Yes.

Yes.

Nevertheless, I think that what you’re doing looks like a model. Do you also have in your mind to consult others how to do this?

You don’t have a hundred years’ history or something like this, so it was easy for you, probably, to come up with new ideas.

I asked you before about models, and I think what I heard, you pronounced this very politely and said that you found very nice -- what was the right word -- history was not...

I like this. I like this part of it. It’s very nice.

You always have both processes?

Like offline version or offline petition?

You mentioned it just now, that trying to get all people involved is one goal. Do you think that to some extent you also think about an offline version?

Yes.

...browser.

Mosaic, like Internet?

A chair or something?

Should we put that back or something like that?

Do you care if it’s getting opened?