So I’ve said it.

I think I said it in the hall today, anyway, didn’t I?

Governments, the way that they procure whole things, it’s always...Well, I shouldn’t say that. But it’s often not great.

Exactly. I kind of laughed when I read your thing about transparency. I think my title today was the beauty of transparency and health. That’s autonomy. It’s for procurement.

It’s really like it’s autonomy.

It allows everyone to use the system they like, so the hospital continues to use Cerner or Epic. The GPs use their bit, the specialists. Everyone uses their thing. They keep it on their system, but they upload the bits that’s relevant for me as a diabetic to have, and ...

...and we don’t need to do prescribing, because they upload that into our system.

As well as if they want to go from system-to-system is better, but they can do it directly. We don’t do billing, because all the systems we interact with do billing...

They can actually use our system to put their notes in digitally as well. Rather than paper, they can do it directly.

There’s a lot of small clinicians, like Allied Health, that don’t even have a clinical system. With us, they can actually upload, as long as they’ve got Internet. In the desert sometimes, there’s ADSL, too, like really slow but it works.

The philosophy is we want itemized, structured data, but we’ll take what’s around. In Australia, there’s a lot of hospitals that still have paper too.

It still allows them to work with the project, rather than saying, "No, you’ve got to be on a computer or you’re out."

They’re not going to change, and they still want to practice, and they can’t trust it. We let them upload their paper into our system. Not ideal, because it’s not itemized, but it’s better than nothing.

"I never want to use the computer." What do you do about those guys?

No. Can’t have that. The philosophy behind what I do in my company is that you got to let people use what they’re using and they’re comfortable with. Sometimes that might be with an old supplier, like a GP who’s 65 or something. They’ve got all the specialists more like.

To trust.

Good. Do you have the Argonaut’s SMART on FHIR app?

Yeah. Graham Grieve is a friend of mine. We’re trying to get the Argonaut’s FHIR project off in Melbourne, and in Australia, sorry. I’m just writing a thing. This is a side project, but this is for the health industry. I’m trying to do a separate proposal for us to ...

That’s what happens. That’s the problem. We’re there to make, not only that possible by letting them share. We have an open API, obviously. No one is that keen on FHIR in our client record, but we’ve got ready to go. It’s a SMART on FHIR app.

Faxing a copy of my computer record? Hello?

If that’s all in one platform, the patient and or their caretaker can control. Everyone can see that they consent to. You save not only time, but also you get better health outcomes, much cheaper because people hate duplicating.

The GP’s record’s quite different. You’re both working on different systems. There’s no unified platform where the patient and their caretaker, such as your mom or something like that, can actually go and say, "Well, this is where mom was last time." They can all look at it together and ...

OK. Perth’s four hours flight from Mulloon or in the desert. You’re the specialist sitting in Perth. You’re looking at the person, who’s sitting there with a GP. You’re going, "OK, well, that looks OK." Then, you look at your record and you start going, "OK, well, I think this ...

Where telehealth is great is obviously covering the distance, but where I can help that is that if you’re sitting as an endocrinologist looking at someone with diabetes, you’re in, say, Perth. The person is in Mulloon or in the desert. I’m sorry, I use Australia because I don’t know ...

That was very, very disappointing. It didn’t have any good impact, obviously. They’ve tightened it up, but then they go the other way and tightened it too much. It’s a bit disappointing.

They didn’t have to prove anything, except that they had contact. They’re contacting their friends.

What Australian government did was to...you probably do it better from the start or not, but it happened in Australia. They said, "For the first 12 telehealth consults that you do, you get paid for specialist." Quite a lot of money. Let’s say $1,000. I think it was 1,000. They ...

The thing, as I see it, for telemedicine, because we’ve been doing that a while in Australia, and you should learn a little bit from us as far as the pain. Quite a few of the doctors gamed it. That was really disappointing. They gamed it.

That’s good.

That’s so good. The doctor gets paid even it’s through the internet.

Technically, it’s a little hot spot.

Yeah, yes. Good. Adelaide’s good.

That’s the whole point, isn’t it, to do that. I like the way that you talked about it. I thought that sounded good. I thought if I was able to come up with a community, I’m sure there’s plenty of community problems, like you saw the elders today. Say, "OK, ...

You can afford to do some of that. You have to sometimes cover your costs. That’s our company philosophy. We do what we can, and most people take the pay cut. I try not to take any path I can, so you can do these things.

It’s all so easily avoidable. Using technology for that, that’s something we do voluntarily. We provide the platform. They use this and go around to all of these communities. I think it’s wonderful. It saved lives.

It’s on a platform that allows the patient then to see it and his providers or her providers in Palm Island or far, remote communities which otherwise, they don’t travel. They don’t want to travel. They don’t want to leave their home country. They don’t feel supported, so they stay ...

My technology goes up to the indigenous people. It’s used in a big pantec van. They use it to share information from eye imaging for diabetics. That thing goes to the ophthalmologist in Sydney University who grades it. It doesn’t just go point to point.

This cream, after five weeks, heals the abscess over so it’s just a scar. That’s in the expo. It’s actually an impressive expo. [laughs] I’m thinking, we’ve got all this problem happening in Australia.

There was a picture of a person with a five-centimeter abscess in their foot. Obviously, a diabetic patient. If the thing was allowed to go on, like it does in Australia, their foot gets cut off. You’ve got 30-year-olds having their feet cut off in Australia. It’s a first-world country.

I saw something which you think, "Why would I be interested in this, in the expo?" It was someone in Taiwan has developed this cream. I hope it’s not snake oil and it actually works.

If it’s like Australia, not good. They don’t have a fair treatment.

Oh, did you?

I am involved with doing that in Australia. Disabled people, indigenous people, chronic disease.

You were key to that because the way that you talk, as I read it anyway, sounds like you are looking for social exercises that are going to make the lives of people who have got issues, be they health -- there’s a hell of a lot of health ones ...

All of those things meant that I thought this time I come, I’m not leaving until Tuesday afternoon. I have some time after the conference to just get more of the vibe of the place. Last time, I went to the old tobacco factory and a couple of art things, ...

I thought that the people are really kind, as opposed to some countries you go to and you just don’t feel any simpatico. That, to me, is key. I just thought it was a really beautiful city because of all the different influences.

I just thought that from a business perspective, that it seems, and I might be wrong here, but I get the very strong impression that there’s an opportunity for a collaborative platform, which is what I do.

In Taiwan, four. I’m here, at the moment, for the health tech forum and the expo. I came, as you know, in July for the Digital Innovation Forum and I just thought that Taiwan was such an interesting place. I didn’t have any time to explore, apart for two hours, ...

Totally good with that.

This radical transparency principle, I think it’s super. I really like it, because in Australia, it’s not like that. It causes a lot of mistrust, because things happen, and you never know quite why and how. I mean, ICT, it’s so opaque that a lot of wrong decisions are made. ...