Thank you so much, cheers.

It was so nice. I love Taipei, but it’s good to travel a little bit.

I got to use going to g0v Conference as my excuse to go see Tainan…

Thank you.

That’s good. This is really my first time in Taiwan, so I’m trying to decide both what I might do for Christmas, and I’ll…

Will you get to enjoy the holidays at all, or is it continuing to be a very busy, I know already, 2020 for everyone?

The noise did not get too bad, either.

That’s fantastic. Thank you so much. This has been really great.

And solve a genuine problem.

From looking at India over the last year, it’s been quite the challenge. [laughs] I think you’ve hit upon all of my questions. This has been so incredible. The thing I always ask everyone at the end is, based on the questions you’ve heard me ask or topics I’ve touched ...

Would that include a specific single agency under the digital ministry or…?

Would any of that, either in terms of the enforcement question or the single-agency DPA, be changed or enacted by the idea of this new digital ministry?

My favorite error has been Facebook Translate sometimes translates MOFA as the Ministry of Magic, and that’s just adorable.

[laughs] Google Translate has been amazing, but sometimes not so.

Exactly. Can I ask, where does this table live?

Sometimes, there might be a response, but there’s a lot going on. It’ll take time.

Exactly.

Are there any methods or mechanisms or processes set in place to review and audit these systems? I’m thinking like the question I’ve had a couple times in the US context is how do you know that your information is being deleted after the 14 days, or how do you…

The app said, “No.” Well, “You need to call this, because we can’t understand.” I’ll be curious to hear more about how you think about…

It’s also a good opportunity, thinking about foreigners as being difficult to reach, of directly saying…It occurred to me when I was using the app, I tried to message back and someone, like, “Can I cure COVID with garlic?”

I got to use a lot in quarantine the daily report-in your symptoms app. I’d love to hear more about the decision process of deciding what goes into that or not, because in some ways, you could think of it having mission creep.

Others have been clear to characterize the report-in system online as not being an app, but being a service. I’d be curious to hear about how that…

That’s what I was told, too, like, “Make sure you leave your phone on, because sometimes, it can get drained.”

Yeah. I got a couple times where it told me that I had left. I got very anxious, and I had to text back. I was like, “No, I’m still here.”

I’d love to hear a little bit more about how wire surveillance has worked in general. I’ve been very interested, having gone through the quarantine process myself.

I know. Every time I try to do a study or comparison and talk to anywhere else in the region or the US, my family still can’t believe. They’re like, “Wait, you went somewhere, and you didn’t wear a mask necessarily?” I was like, “Well, after December 1, I’m wearing ...

I was going to ask how you think about measuring success on that, when you’re like, “Well, it’s harder to miss cases.”

Fantastic. It’s hard, because Taiwan has just done so overwhelmingly well.

It’s only if they’re specifically approached by the CECC saying, “We have a person that we’ve interviewed who says they’ve come to your facility within this period of time. You might want to notify everyone.”

I’ve been wondering about that, because I’ve gone to a couple of museums and different places where they’ll say, “Oh, we need your phone number or email.”

Very neutral to the person as well.

Has there been any discussion more or less information requested, or?

Following the Ministry of Health and Welfare, it’s very broad on the case, so you can understand maybe the country of origin and a little bit about what the next steps were taken to ensure management of local spread.

There can be some groups that question, “Oh, we want to know where the cases are clustered,” but then you get to the question…

The challenge being that, with COVID-19, some human rights groups argued that they’d actually gone too far in saying…

The case study that I’ve been previously more familiar with on thinking about government response to pandemic or crisis is South Korea, where during MERS, the administration was not transparent enough by a number of measures led to changes in laws.

OK, fantastic, thank you. Then this has been incredibly helpful, too. Thank you. This transitions between a few of my questions, the transparency focus.

I know some of that’s been ongoing. Has that officially been launched in high schools?

If I can ask, what’s the difference between…

Digital literacy as a broad effort, I know there’s been this conversation, and I’ve read a little bit online, about trying to embed it in high school curricula.

Especially, too, in some of the breaking news and understanding where it’s not just historical review, but it urgently needs action now, and getting that high-level attention to it.

I know the World Health Organization over the summer and fall has been doing some efforts to try to think about their own metrics for success in combatting the infodemic. Has there been any invitation, extension, inclusion of Taiwanese participation?

I think I know the answer to this one, but I want to ask directly to make sure I…

That’s really helpful, because the action seems to be also where you want to drive, even regardless, if you have a campaign that doesn’t respond to the public health concern…

You’ve spoken to this a little bit already, but I’d love to hear more about how you of measuring success in some of these efforts. The challenge that seems to come up inevitably is how do you define success of a disinformation campaign that never…

It may be in some ways less relevant to their work day-to-day.

[laughs] Or change the meaning, part of it is lost.

Then the other one is foreign communities, whose first language might not include Taiwanese Mandarin or another Chinese dialect. It might be English or Southeast Asian languages.

I’d love to hear a little bit more about ways in which you’re trying to reach difficult-to-reach communities. There are two that I have in mind in particular. One is, of course, the elderly or those who are less digital native are often cited as the most likely to spread…

I know, I was looking at some of the Cofacts database, and I was incredibly impressed by just how much data was out there, of not even, just broad data. Not even trying to do a message, but allow researchers to check.