Thank you. Bye.

Thank you. Bye. Have a good day.

Thank you so much.

I would prefer a transcript instead.

That’s amazing. Thank you so much. That’s it. Thank you so much for this interview. That’s all my questions. I don’t know if you have any questions for me.

What gets you up in the morning, then?

Then, what keeps you awake at night?

OK. Thank you so much. Now, I’m just going to ask some quick fire questions. Well, the first one perhaps not quite as quick fire. What would you say, if anything, has g0v taught you about society as a whole?

Then I’m going to ask some quick-fire questions, but I just wanted to ask, obviously you came in with Jaclyn Tsai, and she came with the more kind of progressive government. How do you think future governments will engage with your office, and your systems policymaking? Is that something you ...

How has this worked with the government? Have they been particularly receptive to it or has it been more of a kind of push and pull process?

Then, speaking a little bit about social innovation, which is social benefits and business profits coming together, you’ve said that you’ve given preferential treatment to companies that do offer social benefits.

Then, you’ve spoken about finding a common cause and pushing forward with that beyond approaching it from different perspectives as it applies to policy review. How easy or how difficult have you found this to be in practice?

Right.

I find this kind of precept really encouraging. I do have a question about how you hold each other to account without a hierarchy. Not necessary in terms of your overarching aim, but more even for the more pedestrian things like project deadlines. How does that work, when there isn’t ...

On the g0v website, I noticed that it describes itself as a “liquid democracy.”

I’m now talking about going from being with the Sunflower movement, essentially on the opposite side of the government. How has it been to go from being “anti-establishment” to, now, working hand-in-hand with the establishment? What has that process been like?

I’m just going back a little bit to thinking about transparency and citizen participation. As a proponent of radical transparency, do you have any thoughts on China’s social credit system? Do you think this is a form of radical transparency or is it something else?

Haven’t started doing that considering that it’s been, I imagine, quite successful based on what you’re saying, in giving people some perspective when they are encountered or when they do encounter disinformation?

In talking about that, especially, as we said, disinformation has become part of the day-to-day social landscape, why do you think, considering that Taiwan has been able to come up with this kind of process of producing counter-narratives, why do you think or do you have any thoughts on why ...

Then, I know another aspect of your work has become battling disinformation. Have you found the current prevalence of disinformation has affected implementing this level of transparency? Has it made any difference or not really?

Is that something that you would like to see continue on in other countries and then, become something that’s linked altogether? Is that, again, something that you can all stay quite disparate to each country or you’d like to stay quite disparate?

In terms of the online participation and civic participation through digital platforms, is that something, as well, that you…Because I think Taiwan is quite unique in that particular aspect.

Is that something you envision? Do you think there’s an endpoint at which, this is now the level of transparency that we’re aiming for and that’s it?

Carrying on with this then, how far do you see this type of transparency going? Do you imagine a world, one day, where every country has this level of transparency or even a higher level of transparency and all the platforms are linked, so it becomes a mass, global, collaborative ...

Considering you have this checks and balances process, I know that you travel every two weeks, do you ever find that the kind of feedback that you get is different when you do the face-to-face to what you get online or do they tend to have synchronicity?

Some people even going beyond that. Some people feel a lot more native online. They feel a lot more comfortable and honest online. For the people that don’t engage as much online, what’s the balance point between those two representations?

While expanding on how the process works, because obviously, it’s predominantly an online process, how do you know that the people participating in it are representative of the larger society’s views? Some people are naturally more adept at being online.

I know a little bit about that right now. [laughs]

I think what I’m getting from this, is that you approach policymaking very much from an empathy base, as well as from looking at commonalities. What would you say? I noticed that you added, or that it was added as part of the g0v platform, an emotion ratings added as ...

Thinking about how this can be carried on, I guess to other countries, other communities, in another society, perhaps that doesn’t have the same group of like-minded people that came together to found g0v, how would you say individuals can push their governments towards more transparency?

Again, is that a flexible limit, or is that something that you hope in the long term that the public will be involved, in all state decisions?

Carrying on from that, obviously, part of the efforts of transparency is to have more public and civic engagement, and more civic participation. I know it started out being focused on budget matters, but it has extended further. As it continues to extend, are there any decisions that you think ...

Are there any filters that you employ in deciding what should be available for public consumption, or is everything up for grabs?

I just have a few questions about the way the actual process works. For you, considering that you’re such an advocate for transparency, would you say that there are any, have you found that there are any aspects, that there’s any data that’s off-limits to transparency?

Yes. That definitely makes sense. I completely understand. Now shifting to radical transparency, just having looked at it and seeing the way the process works, it is something that I find particularly inspiring. Obviously, I don’t…not obviously, but I’m not necessarily a tech person, in the sense of writing code ...

Those are two terms that I think would be dichotomous. Could you go into a little bit more detail about that?

Coming from that background that is, as you’re saying, working in that space that is more inclusive and hopefully supportive of kind of the end goal. Could you explain, because I read in one of your interviews that define yourself as a conservative anarchist.

Then do you feel like, again, by being in this position, do you feel like there’s any added pressure, because you have to maybe represent anybody that is coming from that kind of vulnerable position as well? Would you feel like that pressure doesn’t exist?

That’s true, the first openly transgender minister and the world’s first digital minister. Have you found that that’s affected your work in any way, whether that be your approach to the work, or working with people? Has that made a difference at all?

Now to go a little bit more to get even more personal, I suppose. Has being, obviously you’re the first transgender minister in the world.

Do you feel like, considering you were involved in this earlier movement to get commercial companies to create more open source, or make their software open source, and have it be something now a little bit more collaborative, do think that in any way has influenced your current at this ...

So considering that you didn’t finish high school, and you taught yourself all these processes, how did you get your first job in Silicon Valley? What was that process like?

That’s amazing, thank you. Going back a little bit more now, how did you get involved in hacking?

Oh my gosh, that’s amazing. That was actually my next question, was what it that also convinced your teachers to allow you to go and do this, but you just explained that. Carrying on from that, do you think that in any way, just moving things forward a bit, do ...

OK, thank you so much. That’s so helpful. Oh, nice, OK. All right. We’ll just start with more of a get to know you section. Going back to leaving high school, what was it in particular about the digital space? I know you left as quite a young teenager. What ...

I have read some of your interviews. I’ve seen that some of them are quite focused on the technology and technical aspects of your work. We’re going to take a slightly more holistic approach to it, so your journey to where you are, and then how you found implementing new ...

What that essentially means is, we share stories from different parts of the globe from contemporary women in different industries that we find really inspiring. Predominantly, those are women in either the creative industries or the cultural industries, or women of note, changing the societal landscape – of which you ...

My name’s Chinasa. I’m the co-founder and art director of Postscript. Postscript is a cultural anthology that’s focused on exploring the complexities of modern women of culture.