Good luck with everything else.

Thank you so much for your time. That was like a roller‑coaster ride, as one of my friends warned me about. Thank you so much.

No. Actually I have to run to another thing, as well.

That was really quick.

That is very interesting. That is very insightful.

Somehow if somebody could basically build a system where instead of outrage you have thoughtfulness, compassion...

Boost.

Intuitively that seems to run counter of the spirit of open government, transparency or maybe not. I don’t know. What do you think?

Last thing. We’ve been talking about, at least on the liberal media side in the West, there’s this lamenting of the right rise of the ring wing nationalists. You’re talking about Brexit, Trump, Marie Le Pen, Turkey, and all this stuff.

That makes sense.

A few lawyers.

As long as the process of it was...

They’re supposed to be representing the people, because technologically they couldn’t go vote in a timely enough of a fashion. There was one question from the interview that we put in that we had to cut because of time, which is, "If you were to design a new constitution for ...

Even say 100 years ago, in the constitution here, there was the National Assembly, which was almost a technological workaround.

True.

Also a lot of people ask me to definitely check in with you on how the Paris meeting...How did you feel about that? How did it go in Paris?

My mental image is a downward ladder (下台階). They have steps where instead of jumping off the cliff, there are steps where they can gradually...

They’re risk‑averse. I think you talked about re‑characterizing the risk for them. How has that been going? I imagine you run into push back on a regular basis.

Right. Exactly. We’re all just coming and going here. Coming back to the work in the government, I tried to ask this question last time too, I hear a lot of people complaining about all Taiwanese bureaucrats. The stereotype is they’re resistant to change.

Instead of arguing which ethnicity, linguistic group, or which regime’s historical view of when they started...

...came into existence.

Actually, that’s the first time I’ve heard thinking about it. Taiwan as a geographic feature. When you think about it in terms of Taiwan began when the geographic feature...

I’m just curious if you have any thoughts on how that should or shouldn’t be done. What are some of the better ways or maybe not so great ways that we could do that?

Sort of to change tracks a little bit. What we do is a little bit more different from say you have a news media in Taiwan reporting about Taiwan issues to the Taiwan electorate. What we do is try to, in a sense, brand Taiwan to the rest of the ...

Something like that just fascinates me. I haven’t figured that out. That’s something that we think about sometimes.

Right. That is really cool, actually. I love magazines, but I also love retail shops. Actual brick and mortar. I’ve always been thinking about this idea. What does it mean to have a brick and mortar news shop? It’s not just you sell magazines, snacks, water, and whatnot.

Say a convenience store, why couldn’t that be a media of some sort? If we were to present the tenants of the news media to have an informed electorate, to have a civil dialog, can that happen in the medium of a convenience store?

Within our media team, sometimes we have these slightly not so workable, or slightly not so realistic, just imagination meetings, where we ask questions like, "Why isn’t..." We think of media, we think of medium, like paper, analog waves, or digital transmission.

...in that process.

Right. To be a participant of some sort...

I’ve seen someone... Usually when we watch a program like that, the image that we see is us talking. Then we’re looking at it this way. As you said, we’re supposed to be looking at a faceless camera representing the audience.

My law degree still works to something.

The in house go‑to person.

More hands on.

[laughs]

Right. Or taking commands.

I’ve always felt that’s basically taking a print newspaper from 300 years ago and putting it on somebody’s screen. I think we could do better. I just want to see what kind of ideas you might have. What is your imagination or vision about what news media could possibly be ...

Then the third thing is more about online media. I think a lot of what we have been doing is publishing articles on a website or a mobile app.

I’m friends with David Wang, we’d known each other in the Silicon Valley. I saw him yesterday and told him I was going to see you today. I just wanted to ask you what is your role? How do you see the startup culture and trend happening in Taiwan? I ...

Second thing is more about... I know you’re a little bit involved with the Asia Silicon Valley project.

I wanted to ask you a little bit more, I guess a couple of things. First, just how’s it been working in the government in general? What’s your experience been like? That’s the first thing.

I wanted to meet you in person. Last time I think was Darice and Daniel who were handling the groundwork. I just wanted to meet you, of course I had some other friends of mine who have had the chance to meet you and said, "You need to talk to ...

First of all, I just want to thank you for giving us the opportunity to interview you last time. I think we promoted the video. We actually got a lot of hits. I want to say we had over 500,000 reach and I think over 100,000 views. Best video that ...