Thank you very much.

No, it’s good to dwindle things into small pieces and make them to vote every day, so they shouldn’t wait for the big...

I am glad. This is very important.

I am glad we are conversant on it, because this is becoming now a future issue buzzword. It will completely affect the way politics and so on.

That’s why this strong association, particularly for those people who are not anymore productive in the regular work, who are actually sitting. All what they are doing is chewing these ideas of politics and this. It will become like a big sect.

You will have another identity, and that identity will become your tribe. Then you are looking for all other excuses to make your tribe bigger, smarter, and superior. Then when you vote, you vote as a tribe. You don’t vote. You lose your personal rationality, I think.

If it becomes a tribe, then everything will be a mob. Individual rationality will disappear. When you vote on tribe, you think as a tribe, because the tribe becomes your identity. This is the so-called populism, is that, at the end of the day.

And strong associations easily become a tribe.

The future policies will depend on this group, and they have strong association everywhere.

...is catered to the elders. Unfortunately, there is no voting limit. Even you are dementia, you can still vote 105, 104, because no one will stop you. Below 18, you can’t. This is becoming now an issue.

Every policy, every future direction...

What does that mean? The rest of the population is about 36 percent, and less than 18 are 10 percent. Only 26 percent of the population will have a voting power different from above 65 people.

Interesting. The other analysis is like Japan now, 64 percent of them are above 65.

Right, for dementia, because their number is growing. Six percent is...

They are now trying virtually to craft a new insurance system, because they don’t even know what they sign for. They don’t even know what they’re contributing. It’s becoming very complicated. The insurance companies are working on a special insurance...

The data shows that at that age, for example, in Japan, six percent of them have dementia. You can’t even communicate. They can’t even...

Excellent. How do you try to tackle the aging issue?

That’s actually one thing that, based on your experience and what you have done so far, I think if you build that, that would be super, super novel contribution to the world. Nobody’s capturing this thing now.

Look, our history in the last hundred years is about increasing population, aging societies, lifetime, average lifespan. Everything is increasing, because there is no limit on the resource for eco service.

Exactly. Until such a time where we get to that stage, we will not stop exploiting the eco services. This theory of achieving SDGs within the planetary boundaries is not going to work, because the planetary boundaries are already being violated.

Exactly, that’s what I’m saying. The gross thing will be completely different.

If we get out of that thing and build a system that actually guarantee the service is available, then the ownership will be the liability.

You have a car because you need a ride. If you provide the ride, then why do you have to need a car? If the ride is available as the simplest service ever, then everybody will stop, because now, we don’t have confidence. That’s why we need to have our ...

That side is like the heaviest example. Ownership is a liability, absolutely. That’s what I mean. Why do you have to own when you need a service? You need a ride. You don’t need a car. You don’t need a car.

When you cost that, then nothing will be profitable. Then everybody will be sharpened and start looking on how to deliver the service, rather than the product, because this part is the big part of the cost.

You can look up on something like bringing the service, rather than the product. People need the service, so you don’t have to bring the product, if you will be able to bring the service.

Right. Until such a time that we start really costing what increasing production really costs you...

Minister, look. Our way of actually production will never change. We still think like increasing production is...

Every production has to be costed now. Every production has to start costing the eco services. The models have not...

The one that we use is just the production cost. We are not costing all the eco services. This is a model that I believe it might work for you, very simply. You have already some sort of foundation on these kind of tasks.

I was trying to read a report shared by the EPA. They’re talking about carbon custody and this kind of thing. This seems like, as a new design for airline industries and this, but in real sense, every cost of production now.

Your work on capturing the values, you said, the tripple bottom line. Have you ever thought of actually capturing the real cost or cost of production?

Right, exactly. That is how this thing is strong. Your narrative should be changing around the issues. That would help a lot, as far as we’re concerned.

This is something that any citizen anywhere, whether in the moon or...

Then what will happen is, when you go to make a case, you’re not longer talking about the bilateral cases. You are talking about, this is a citizen’s right. This is citizen’s project, citizen’s right. How can three million people do not have that right to contribute?

Before you go into the peer thing, if you just start engulfing something around you, then expand, and then expand, and looking for soft targets, as I told. Then using the soft platforms...

Your strategy should be how to build online.

It’ll also help you to focus on common issues. Also, when the jury do the evaluation, they have common values that they take into consideration.

It’s good to go through this Asia-Pacific, because before you go to the global, it’s good also to say, you have something that relate the region. This thing is national, the regional...

I think really like take stock of what we have done so far and make it a case, make it a product, make it something so that on the platform that we are talking, these kind of ideas can be marked as a case and then with some kind of ...

I think if we continue to do this, for sure I mean it will have some effects for one or the other. But at the same time, we want to see how we can use what we have in hand...

I mean what really concerns me is like having all these kind of great ideas. How do we really see off these things, spot them and measure that and all these ideas becomes products and products becomes something...

Also, you can tell that, this is not a subtropical environment character. A lot of countries will have this kind of thing. Their water challenge is completely different. This one’s very peculiar. If I were you, I would clearly start building cases around this.

Right. This one is completely different. This is completely different. This is the one place where you have the big ocean and the mountain together.

I think the peculiarity of the ecosystem is extremely important. Look, the coastal issues of science around the coast, you can have, in many countries, this kind of thing. If you go to New Jersey in the US...

Can you do it? That’s what I talked to the vice president this afternoon.

As you know, people are going there and reporting, but HLPF is reporting somewhere. This is the story that you are telling. It’s one thing to tell the story, but it’s another thing to bring people at it.

You need to go to the world out there. You need to be part of the dialogue. They need to be part of the discourse, to contribute the successful stories like this one, and also maybe challenges as well. That’s what we say, and HLPF is one platform.

That’s my observation, and a lot of Taiwan seems like working very hard now on Taiwan SDGs, but there is nothing like Taiwan SDGs practically. 54 percent of SDGs are national, but 46 percent are global.

If you don’t build that confidence, you do not have moral right. If you stay away and just talk about the rhetoric as a single song all the time, then you will not help yourself, and you will not break from the shell.