Yeah, I mean, 10 years ago, the vTaiwan scope was limited precisely because the… Like, of course, Uber was controversial. Marriage equality was more controversial, right? So, if we have the tools, why not to solve it like the actually the most controversial topic?

Yeah, 10 years ago.

Right, right. They’re more in line with like youth engagement on social justice and housing justice is at the same level with things.

Like not integration of incarcerated individuals.

Well, the YDA chose that for this year’s Let’s Talk already. So, they are like with or without us, they’re going to run 34 workshops. It was just the main value proposition is that so that they can aggregate better, right? So, it’s not like vTaiwan will run two additional ...

We were talking about housing justice, which is the YDA topic.

Yeah. Are there any thoughts from the DN?

And I think there will be a lot of investment in this because that’s like one of the main promises of the incoming cabinet is just to reconnect with the youth. And so, this will be like a natural ally for you.

Yeah, so I think one immediate action is just for DN to maybe through the cabinet level youth advisor network, which is also run by the same youth development agency, to introduce you to the YDA who runs Let’s Talk.

Unless you’re a historian. Or investigative journalist.

Right. Exactly. Yeah, there is more like 100 past deliberative workshops worth of data.

Some of them are in audio, some of them are in video, some of them just text. Because it’s both about training upcoming facilitator teams and also writing facilitation, so it depends on their record keeping capacity. But it goes all the way since, I think it goes back to ...

I know. I know.

Because I was the minister in charge of youth engagement, so we made sure that they keep plenty of past data. It was just never analyzed, never-mined, so to speak.

But I think the government can play a catalyzing, a convening role to put together the democratic innovators, that’s you on this side, and the CSOs on this side through something like the Youth Development Agency. So, this is just one of the first ideas that popped into my mind ...

And I think vTaiwan has plenty of people who feel strongly about housing justice as well in adjacent communities. There’s this Rentea group, there’s many projects within g0v that also has housing justice as their main concern. And they were just, I think, drawing this impossibility event diagram. Like they ...

So, the Youth Development Agency is formally in charge of spreading deliberative democracy in Taiwan. And the person who established this whole program will soon be our Deputy Premier, Cheng Li-chun, previously Minister of Culture, previously Minister of Youth Engagement. And so, I think this is like the obvious natural ...

And this is, I think, something that they… Like, this is what we call a cheap and cheerful win, right? Because you don’t have to do anything extra. All of these are strictly a subset of what you did already do with us, with Michigan, and with the labor union ...

And so… But if you look at kind of previous years, for example, on net zero, mental health and so on, these were some of the previous years’ topics, you do see some of the metadata. You do see the handbook, but you don’t see much else at most AI ...

Yeah sure, I’ll just start dropping random URLs here. Okay, great. So, yeah. as I was saying, just this year alone, there’s going to be 34 different CSOs, each hosting at least one deliberative workshop on a shared topic, which is called housing justice, and which is one of the ...

One very good example is called Let’s Talk. It’s at youthhub.tw. It’s just called Let’s Talk, right? So, very year there’s dozens and dozens…

So, I think that’s very powerful. That really is very powerful. Because in Taiwan we have many governmental agencies that regularly run deliberative conversations that is set by the citizens or at least the stakeholders, but they’re all just tallied on the same website through all the very different organizers. ...

Yeah, I think if you look at Cortico, that’s their main mode now, right? Their whole webpage has been redesigned so that it’s audio excerpts first, right? And making that first class instead of clusters first class, I think, speaks to kind of this lived experience, how people feel about ...

Was it also with the video excerpts?

Oh, you did?

Exactly.

Great. So, the other community that you work with, I’ve read the Michigan case study, that looks like it also has a chance to grow into a recursive public if you do iterated conversations. But is there an appetite for that in Michigan or in similar communities?

And no pandemic.

Right, so, how shall we start? We did receive a kind of planning document. I don’t know…

Yeah, so this conversation is on the record, but it will not be published on the moda official website. We will make a transcript. We will co-edit it. We will still contribute to GitHub and all that, but only after everybody is happy with the edits. And so, feel free ...

I never left. I was always in the channel.

So, I’m Audrey. I’m still currently moda minister, just the first digital minister of Taiwan. I’m myself transitioning to a more public and intellectual role. I’m also looking forward to work in the civil society with all of you after I transition on May 20th.

Okay.

Alright, maybe a very quick round of introduction just so that we know… Okay, maybe starting with you?

Alright, thank you so much.

I mean, we have the Internet. We can do it virtually — through IPv6, preferably.

Yeah, yeah. It’s not too bad.

And so, while of course we will think together around possible contacts, I would encourage also to deepen the TWNIC community engagement because they, like the .Asia community, they are very connected.

Yeah, I’m sure DN already has plenty of contact with the counterparts in East Asian countries and TWNIC even more because TWNIC works with other NICs, which are not always government supported. Some of them are more like people-to-people relationships or a registrar association or things like that.

Yeah. As movement builders, what’s most important is just getting the details right, so that it can bootstrap more trust. It engenders more trust. So really, thank you for being detail-oriented because I am too. And looking forward to continuing our partnership.

All right. If there’s nothing else, I will see you tomorrow at our national academy campus.

We need to include the net zero section next time.

Anything else?

Yeah, within the DN there is the net zero section. And the net zero partnership section also works with MOEA and ADI and like everybody else on that. So, as DN is your primary contact, I’m sure that if you involve net zero section in the next working level meetings, ...

I’m sure that RightsCon will be a great platform for privacy preserving technologies, and democracy renewal.

Everything else, I think we already covered some of these. I don’t know whether in the RightsCon do we have our own agenda in addition to the ones you already know, you know, public code and decentralized identity. I think these are the two main ones. But if the next ...

We don’t. So, we usually piggyback on top of the Science and Technology Division and or the Economy Division. And so, we don’t really have oversea dispatch that can brief the missions. So, you will have to go through MOFA or the Economy Ministry, or Science and Technology to get ...

Yeah. I think the only point that we’re probably not the competent authority is briefing our overseas missions. The reason is that while the ministries usually have a dispatch within the oversea embassies, for example, usually the Science and Technology Council have a S&T team, or the Ministry of Economy ...

Thank you. Anything else you’d like to discuss?

Yeah. And the difference is that then in your announcement, you can say specifically “Taipei City”.