This goes back to the open API idea. If we do have an open API of those other ride‑sharing dispatches, for the delivery and everything, then we can aggregate it, so that the driver...

It does give the driver more choice. I do agree with that.

Yeah, sure. When I was in Paris, one of the cars that I went into, I wouldn’t even call it an Uber car, because they have five different smart phones on the dashboard.

Exactly.

It’s computerized, but anyway.

I’m saying it’s comparable, but you’re saying that it’s not. I would like to hear more.

And 4.5 stars. Then, we’re comparing it to applying to a local authority of the Ministry of Transport, to go through very similar background checks and criminal records, and then pass a written exam about the responsibility of professional drivers.

Sure, but an Uber driver’s license.

Sure, of course. My main agenda is just to listen to your side of the story, as complete as possible. I’m just saying that currently you were comparing a driver, a part‑time driver maybe, applying to Uber for background checks, for everything, and getting an Uber driver’s license, for lack ...

Yeah, sure. I agree 100 percent. I think we’re in violent agreement, here.

I’ve used it in Paris, yeah.

Sure. UberPOOL is not in Taiwan though. I knew it from Paris.

All this, we can agree in principle, and we are already putting them in effect.

We do want to, of course, make the roads congestion‑free and eventually move to a more autonomous or semi‑autonomous cycle, although I think the rides of your Otto line, the long‑haul trucks, with what we call software‑defined rails, will probably happen first. That’s easier and contributes more to the carbon ...

...to make that efficient. We also have local and maybe non‑local technology companies who are willing to work with these fleets, to make e‑fleets that serve those under‑served areas or the areas that have a lot of congestion. That’s already happened as of a couple of weeks ago. We’re now ...

Now with the new regulation that was just passed last month, we’re now taking applications. We are now basically saying these are the professional drivers who, as we said, maybe they’re riding on the street and then contributing to congestion, because there’s no planned algorithm...

There is already ride‑sharing communities, usually around commutes to universities, and so on, in Taiwan. So far, there’s been no for‑profit operators, because the law was not allowing app‑based car dispatch.

Sure, sure.

If it is, and if it does cause a problem, of course the Ministry of Transport can look into streamlining the process. But, from my personal experience, it just involved going into one single office of the Ministry of Transport. It’s not multiple government agencies. If that’s the only barrier ...

Right, it’s just certifying that you have more skill than a non‑professional driver. It’s a skill‑based examination, mostly about understanding the duties and responsibilities as a professional driver. That’s not a very high barrier of entry, personally speaking.

As for the Ministry of Transport, from what I’ve been personally through to obtain a driver’s license, it’s really not more one week’s time. There is one exam, I think, one written exam, and that’s about it.

Right, so the main contention is just to obtain professional driver’s license. You would like drivers to not obtain professional driver’s license, because it costs too much or...

I think we dialed it down from the France fines, which was more than that. The French, I think it’s slightly higher, maybe 10 percent higher.

For not obtaining a professional license, yes?

Indeed, there’s nothing in our new regulation that says they must drive full time or they must drive exclusively in business hours, or anything like that. I still fail to appreciate where is the hoops.

Well, they just take four hours to get a professional driver’s license. It’s not that much. It costs I think less than $100 US. This is not a huge or a tremendous amount.

We also put surge pricing into the regulation. We really took everything that you did and...

Tell me why.

These are in our regulations, as well.

I thank you for bringing the inspiration. I do agree that it is the consensus of, regardless of who they’re working from, that we do have a regulatory structure for this, and now we do have. Of course, if Uber Taiwan is willing to register as one of the fleets, ...

Just last month we passed what we call the e‑taxi regulation, or more formerly taxi driver certification regulation structure, so that any company who just want to introduce this non‑painted yellow, non‑medallion fleet can apply to the ministry of transportation, and also operate just exactly like Uber with this 5‑ ...

The other innovation that Uber brings is this 5‑star system that let’s not just the passengers, but also the drivers, who can also have their reputation for the clients. I think these are some things that are very inspirational and that we do want to learn from.

Then we made the regulatory auditory structure based on people’s block consensus, even among people who are divisive. One of the consensus was basically taking Uber as a source of inspiration, saying that it is true that we have a way to help taxis that does not depend on the ...

Then we had, of course, a lot of division of ideas, but because we employ a Pol.is platform that takes the principle component of everybody’s ideas and present it in an easy‑to‑understand, two‑dimensional form. People still arrive at some consensus, very strong, like 95 percent consensus.

To very quickly recap, a year ago I was helping to facilitate a multi‑stakeholder discussion here on the vTaiwan platform, about exactly the regulatory structure that you talk about. We had thousands of participants. It was the Uber drivers, UberX drivers, and also traditional taxi drivers, but also people who ...

Vertical.

You also want to bring flying cars.

On the Asian context, we also have our original APEC Privacy Framework, and also the EU side of the privacy framework, and we can look at that as well. Ride‑sharing has not yet come up on the agenda of Asia‑Silicon Valley plan. That’s just what it is.

Ride‑sharing, incidentally, is not (laughs) part of the Asia connecting to Silicon Valley plan. For this plan, in particular, we are focusing more on the deregulation or regulatory normalization. Of course, from the Silicon Valley side, there’s demands like the digital two dozen, and then Internet neutrality and Open Internet. ...

We’re not trying to be a Silicon Valley, but we do want to connect the talent, the regulatory framework and everything, so that we can connect better towards our peers in the Silicon Valley. That’s the main vision.

In any case, if the idea was to be a connector, a hub if you will, and one of the many hubs that links the other hubs in Asia. There’s many, right? There’s Singapore. There’s Hong Kong. There’s Korea. There’s Japan. So just to build a stronger link.

I mostly visited. I visited the Valley from time to time, but I am always based in Taiwan. I was telecommuting full‑time.

We’re not trying to “shanzhai”, to copy the Silicon Valley, or be a copy of Silicon Valley. I think it’s unique. Until five weeks ago, I was still working with Valley companies.

That’s fine, but still, we are not trying to be a Silicon Valley of Asia. The plan we had was what we call Asia connecting to Silicon Valley. Taiwan is like a connector that links with Asia and connects with the Silicon Valley.

We’re not trying to be the Silicon Valley of the West. There is a Silicon Valley in the West, and that’s the Silicon Valley.

In the previous century, it’s usually the front end and back end are built together. It’s strongly coupled, and people cannot really change that. Now we’re trying to move to decouple that convention.

Yeah. The idea is that the government should focus on providing services in the form of APIs, if necessary. Then the private sector and the civil society can design the best user experience they want, using the API provided by the government.

Just today, they launched code.gov, which is something that we very much are inspired by the White House. There’s this mandate that all the administration has to open‑source 20 percent of their code. This is something that we will want to learn from. Also, the civil participation side, which is ...

Youth council, and that’s it. With open government, I spend my time working on the output side, which is open source, open API, open data, which as I understand, the US Digital Service also does a lot of the same thing.

My three mandates are open government, social enterprises, and then what we call youth council.