Exactly, so it’s double use. It’s actually involving the Ministry of Health and Welfare, as well, also the army, and a lot of very different stakeholders who everyone has a different solution to this problem of medical assistance.

For example, there was just one about a southern part of Taiwan, Hengchun, which really lacks medical resources. The petition was to ask for the Ministry of Interior’s helicopters to be stationed there to work as ambulance so that they could be transported to medical centers...

Of course. We work on the e-petition case, where people who have the countersignature of about 5,000 people online gets a guaranteed response from the ministries. If the petition is just for one, single ministry, of course it’s relatively easy to handle, but sometimes we get those petitions that involves ...

Since last October.

Rather, we’re working in a pre-figurative way of demoing how this work and maybe spreads gradually to the other ministries.

Not at all, because the Public Digital Innovation Space works on a volunteer basis, so only people who volunteer to work in this space, currently about 20 people, get into this culture. We’re not forcing all the ministries to transform overnight into this digital way of working.

We used to record our roadmap in business oragamis, so all those tools that people use in startup and on the weekly iteration cycle is mostly how I run this Public Digital Innovation Space.

That’s exactly right. We run on a weekly basis where we have stand-up meetings every day, and then, also, offline and online Kanban boards, notes, and things like that.

That’s exactly right. While other ministers without portfolio have their specific ministries to worry about, because the digital transformation really covers all the ministries, so the participation offices come from, literally, every ministry in the administration.

If one of the ministers think this is cross-ministry stuff, I also help the ministers to communicate to the Premier.

I’m Audrey Tang. I’m Digital Minister here in Taiwan. As a digital minister, I don’t have a digital ministry, but rather work as minister without portfolio, meaning that when there is new digital stuff, like e-gaming, or things like that, that doesn’t really neatly fit into any of the ministries’ ...

That’s great.

Looking forward to it.

It’s only for German audience, or is it also going to be translated?

The Mongolia one is going to be your pilot?

How do you review the footage?

That’s right. It’s an internal startup.

It’s making democracy fun.

It’s OK. These are some of the scenarios that we’re trying to design, both in a room-based VR, and also in headset-based VR, and mix those two together.

Also, so that we can project people’s consensus around specific points or a specific place in time as one of the objects of discussion, like if we’re talking about city planning, I can project the city right here for us to talk about it. It’s an interactive model of such. ...

We do it like this because we meet both in real space and also online, and we want to give people who practice this thing over live stream the same participation feeling as people here. We explore a lot using augmented reality, virtual reality, so that people can wear a ...

The point here is that when thousands of people participated online, watched the live stream, it creates a tremendous pressure on people to both show up, and also act reasonably. This is how we did, for example, things like sharing economy, right now social enterprises, and uncrewed vehicles, and all ...

We also talk about contested points, of course, but we don’t usually spend too much time on it. We respect people have different feelings about the same basic fact, but the idea’s that addressed is people’s common feelings, is a win already, and then we turn it into regulation.

Actually, only about things people agree, because people agree on those things as important values, and then we ask all the stakeholders, including Uber, and taxi drivers, and whatever, of what kind of regulation do you think are useful to address these people’s common feelings.

We use a machine learning algorithm to sort people into principal components and clusters, and then to have majority opinions gathered. Even though people may disagree on things, people still agree on things like insurance, taxation, and so on. Then we take those majority opinions and have a face-to-face deliberation.

We run weekly deliberations based on people’s petitions, but also things that are really so advanced that no single departments or ministry know how to handle. For example, the UberX case were handled this way, where we have this online AI-mediated discussion, where people express what they want or don’t ...

Fridtjof.

Fridtjof?

How do you pronounce your name?

Audrey, or whatever.

Audrey.

You will have more time in a day.

Actually, if we move to a larger planet...

It’s easy. You just delay sleep six hours every day.

Halfway only. It’s a very long day. You know those 30-hour days. I love those a lot.

I think we’re about halfway there.

Sure.

Somewhere that can film both of us?

It more closely resembles a real paper-like workflow, where we have our organizational goals, values and artifacts, and so updates are road mapped accordingly. While every part of this line becomes one of those core goals, then we map it back to the Kanban columns, which is reviewed weekly every ...

Cool. But then if you add new cards, you still have to do it the digital way? You can’t add note cards the analog way. That’s what we’re trying to solve here. We do a lot of brainstorming, not necessarily in Kanban, but also in this realtimeboard where there’s a ...

That’s right. That’s what we’re doing too.

...so that we can paste on those whiteboards and have it all magically transcribed to online versions. They’re coding that right now. We were just joking because if you wear something like this, like an optical camouflage, OpenCV will see all these faces...

We were just working here on the OpenCV recognition of post-it notes...

Yeah, I’m aware of that...

No?

Everything’s exponential but batteries.

The main challenge is the size and weight of the battery. Once they solve that, it’s...

Yeah, I know that work.

A what?

Yeah, it’s a sign.