Many things. [laughs] I love translation. I translated quite a few poems. I write poetry. Also, I love partaking in community building. That is something that really gives me joy.

Go ahead.

It’s OK. I don’t have anything else. [laughs]

That’s the social contract, because otherwise it’s not a society anymore, is the have and have-nots.

Exactly.

Yeah, and keeping equality. I think we need to start just saying access to computation and Internet is a human right in turn from that.

When we’re working this into the education system and having the collaboration as part of curriculum, I think the society gradually gives trust to people who are doing AI research to keep polishing, to keep sharing whatever it found with the society, because the alternative would be they’re afraid of ...

What we’re now doing is that we’re saying to all the taxpayers that, "Sorry, but Internet access and access to cheap AI computation facility is a human right, and we’re now supporting it with your taxpaying money, and we’re not sorry for it because otherwise, we’re just leaving one country ...

We could easily imagine, like many part of in Taiwan, if we don’t say, "We need to have Internet access, access to cheap computation as a human right," if we don’t say this, then we easily see that people in large cities become eventually a different species, the fire-wielding species, ...

It’s not chasing teachers out of work, and second, that everybody is confident enough to use some AI in doing their homework or doing their research or whatever in a democratic way, an accessible way.

Again, with artificial intelligence, this is what we need to do. We need to build artificial intelligence into the devices and have children grow up with artificial intelligence not as one class, or how to use fire in class, but as part of the education system where they work with ...

Eventually, we were saying essentially that while personal computers can give a lot of fun or 3D printing or whatever, if people started learning its relationship with the community when they’re young enough, they become responsible users of this technology.

It’s done as part of normal daily work, it’s not done as part of their discipline, or as a technology, so the same with personal computers. It could be fathomed, instead of the personal computer revolution, we have just supercomputers, and everybody was just given terminals, access into state supercomputer ...

That is democratized in a way that says, "If you can cook for yourself every day, you can pass on this knowledge to your children, or whatever, without having a state regulating the use of fire."

It is violent, but the civilization’s relationship with fire was never one of policing, it was always one of education, of making sure that even very young people was taught, as part of how to cook, the dangers of fire.

What I’m getting at is that fire is very dangerous. We’ve seen fire destroying entire cities. We’ve seen fire, when it’s used, causing enormous damage, not to mention that all the weaponry was built upon the principle of inflicting in the sense of causing as much fire and damage as ...

Then fire was invented and people started moving one part of digestion to the external towards, which is technology, what we call cooking or preparing the food. Those people become healthier, because it’s antibacterial, or whatever, but also that people were able to produce food in bulk, which protected people ...

The thing is that our body can only burn things very slowly and not very efficiently. The things beyond that which could be eaten is left to rot or can’t really be processed efficiently to last for a long time.

I think of AI as like the invention of fire. When human beings invented fire, we took something that is internal to our body, which is the digestion of proteins and other molecules into smaller molecules, it’s like a slow-burning process. When the people were hunters or gathers, we’re digesting.

I think of this generation of, say, machine learning or other advanced technologies. When you talk about policing, of course people think about AI now, because that’s the technology that needs policing, if there’s any technology that needs policing. I just use it as an example, but it applies to ...

Of technologies in general?

Of course.

Mm-hmm, that’s right.

With two pieces of glass, it’s very difficult to reach that state. There are technologies now that we’re improving to make sure that people can still reach what we call attunement over a distance. Whether that builds into empathy is between that two people, but at least the technology is ...

One, it can give the impression to the other side of the telecommunication that there really is an avatar, and representing very clearly both the micro expressions and where the attention is. I think that collective inhabitation of meaning between two people’s attentions makes this inter-subjectivity the subject, and we ...

It’s very difficult to reconstruct that from a piece of glass, no matter how dense is the pixel. We can actually improve on that, which uses a lot of bandwidth, but kept with the sufficient technology, like in the room, one can track where your eyes are looking at, or ...

I do think virtual reality really helps. That’s one of the technologies. The other one, I think, is really high-resolution, like 4K and 3D video conferencing. Through Skype or the previous generation of silicone High-Definition video, we lose a lot subtle signals, what we call micro expressions, like where the ...

From space, it’s a good feeling, which is why many people came to space and go back a better person, because they could feel that it were one fragile blue dot here. Through virtual reality, it’s much easier to get into the same perspective, not just on the planet, but ...

Also, one of my first VR experiences was to wear the headset, and to look at the Earth from the International Space Station. It was an overview effect that really brought the clouds away, because from the ground, you can’t really feel the planet as one thing. It takes abstractions.

Just for example, there’s physically a man and a woman, but they took their VR headsets, and they looked down and look at each other’s bodies, and they respond to, for example, "Raise your right hand," and they raised their right hand at the same time, so that it really ...

There are, certainly with virtual reality, it’s now much easier for people. I had an artist visiting me here. One of his projects was to have people in very different situations, but wearing the goggles, and looking, literally, through the eyes of each other.

Even after I get the surgery, and it’s reasonably sure that when I sleep I can wake up the next day, I think this feeling remains. I think this is what gives to this channel-like behavior. It’s because I am not holding anything. I cannot really imagine myself holding anything. ...

In any case, what I’m getting at is that because of this uncertainty of whether I will sleep and wake up the next day for the first 12 years of my life, before getting the surgery, I think I’m born with this kind of idea that whatever I do for ...

After I went through the surgery when I was 12, it was fixed. Then I sought out very happy experiences, but I don’t see why being very angry helps so I didn’t really seek those experiences. I have not been very angry at any moment in my life until this ...

Basically, my aggressiveness, in addition to the testosterone thing was capped to a certain level above which my body responds violently. I learned very early on, before I have memory, whenever I start feeling really angry or so, to breathe very carefully, and relax and so on, because my body ...

I think it’s because I was born with this congenital heart defect. There was a hole between the two lower parts of my heart. So, I couldn’t really run or get upset when I was a baby, because when my mom said that when I do so, there’s not enough ...

It would, actually. Relationships do suffer.

Sure. [laughs]

I am still at somewhere biologically between the two sexes, but I think my mind has been opened in the same way that people say their mind has been opened after living an indigenous livelihood or things like that.

...after three or four years of going through the female puberty.

It’s not like taking a long-term drug. It’s eye-opening in a way it moves the psychology to places that we’re unfamiliar as a person. I ended up stop taking the antiandrogens and estrogens, but it doesn’t mean I’m not learning anything new anymore...

I think that’s the two main things.

It’s not that I became less assertive. It’s assertive with a purpose. Whereas before, when the testosterone was driving me to be assertive, it’s like being assertive without a purpose.

Also, because I also took antiandrogen, it lowers my aggressiveness -- which was already very low to begin with -- to non-existent.

When I say, "Feel it," it’s not just metaphorical, it’s something that comes out of the guts, the skin, and so on. It’s the assertion from the body, I think that really changes.

...and in the body, because you feel it.

I think that’s one of the things that one can’t learn from books. It really comes from the interactions and from empathizing with the surrounding, not just surrounding people, but animals, and plants, and, you know, hearts...

I think that’s one of the things that is...

That becomes very powerful in a way that...It moves my mind into corners that the existing abstractions does not capture. I had to find new words for it.

The body certainly asserts itself more. There is much higher resolution to whatever the body is experiencing. It’s becoming very difficult to ignore the body’s feeling/affect/connection.