Cheers.

Try to be here at May. We are going to have a fabulous summit then.

No problem at all. No problem at all. Thank you so much.

Let’s both do the paperwork, then. Looking forward for the next coordination message from you. If you don’t have my email, Ray can give it to you. Feel free to include me in the further communications.

We’ll have a more truly multi stakeholder conversation, so it’s not just something that the government’s interested, but also something that the civil society and the private sector will want to participate.

We have a lot of interest about potential collaboration on this regard, so we will publish this transcript. By the time that you talk with the GSG further on the agenda, we will also have the people who will look at the transcript and say that they’re also interested in ...

That sounds like a plan. If you need any additional material, or that we’re forming a NAB, we will need a similar draft document. Of course, I’m sure Ray would help, and help us preparing for the bid. What’s most important is that everybody else in Taiwan must feel that ...

Definitely.

If it’s during the Parliamentary inquiry period it’s very difficult for me to travel in the flesh, but I look forward to participating either from afar, as a robot, or in the flesh, if it’s not the Parliamentary inquiry period.

I did get on a webinar along with Professor Fang. I’m very much looking forward to participating, either as a robot or in the flesh.

Also, because what we saw in New Zealand, we think we must carry that conversation further. We chat with the SEWF, and they’re OK with us hosting a SEWF like event, maybe in partnership with them, next May.

I would also very much welcome the AVPN people, as well as GSG people to join us in the dialogue. We will have people from Hong Kong, from Korea, and maybe from Mainland, also, in order to shape the impact investing here.

Now we have the regulatory vehicles. Now what we need is the know how of how to operate those vehicles from our international counterparts. We’re naturally very much interested. We’re also having an Asia Pacific forum about social enterprises, including investment, next May. In May 5th and May the 6th.

That’s great. In Taiwan impact investing is what people very much care for, but because of regulatory and legislative lagging behind it’s not growing as fast as other Asian countries. Now we’re just cleared the most important, the Company Act. It’s not blocking the impact investing anymore, then we’re adding ...

What’s GSG’s relationship with AVPN? Are you alliances or partners?

So if we were interested in joining the executive board, then we get to join it with one representative from each market? That’s the idea?

If this is truly multi stakeholder, then of course everybody chooses their own names, but if this multilateral, then as far as I understand there’s some concerns about One China Policy. You’re not restricted by the One China Policy?

That’s great. We get to join the GSG as a country?

That’s great. The basic structure, the GSG structure, as well as Japan’s National Advisory Board draft, we have read the materials and we’re pretty interested. This a extension with the G8 network, as far as I understand.

If you are OK with it, we will post this chat transcript for you to edit, and then we’ll publish this online for other interested stakeholders to see, if it’s OK with you.

I’m very happy for the introduction from Ray Chen.

Thank you.

Awesome. Thank you so much.

Right. That’s your symbol. Do you want a picture?

Of course.

We had to innovate in those senses instead of on the censorship part.

Now with that constraint, it’s like one hand tied behind our back. [laughs] We need to then work on interventions that are not censorship -- on media literacy classes, on those innovative discussion forums that doesn’t really let people reply directly to each other, but rather compete for resonance.

They’re not making those words go away. We’re not trying to make any words go away. That’s the Taiwan stance on this matter, and it’s not because of any particular politician being an anarchist, but because of the recent 30 years, everybody focused on free speech as the fundamental right, ...

The civil society was very clear around that, and we are also very clear on that. The government isn’t even thinking to censor speech in any way, so the co-facts and other related efforts, basically, needs to be more transparent, more accountable than government and then any other media they’re ...

Everybody says, "OK, the government should just make frequently asked questions that clears rumors pertaining to government itself, and the government should not lie, but everything else is not the government’s business."

I think Taiwan, maybe alone in Asia, is having this as a core value, so we don’t even have a discussion. It’s kind of the other way around, on whether the government can set up a fact checking, or whatever, centers like this.

The other thing is we’re in a large epidemic, then spreading rumors about the epidemic is punishable. Everything else is safe space. Everything else is free speech.

We don’t see any constitutional disputes around the importance of freedom. I think the only two things that can be penalized using our current criminal code related to speech inaccurate or whatever speech are two things. One is that during presidential or other high-level elections trying to libel somebody into ...

We fought very hard, not we, but my parents’, my grandparents’ generation, they fought very hard, during democratization to basically make Taiwan a place where places freedom of speech as the core value.

Just look at the PRC at the moment. You have an idea of the keyword banning that was active, and it was very active during the White Terror, martial law era in Taiwan, also. The people older than me all remember that era.

Actually no, because Taiwan...I’m 36 now. I’m the last generation that remembers the martial law. People younger than me doesn’t remember the martial law anymore. During the martial law, there’s a lot of this kind...

I’m sure it’s a useful service to society. It’s not very systematic, though.

The trolls just move on to use some other words. [laughs]

How’s it working?

Oh, yeah?

We have more population density to try to reach a critical mass for things like that but, in the end, traffic-wise or geographically, we’re just a larger city, really.

It’s easier on a local level to have a shared GitHub, and share tools. It’s much harder for a national government. It is true. Taiwan is somewhere in between. We’re very large population-wise, but very small, like city scale, geographic-wise.

Madrid is experimenting. Actually, a lot of our tools came from Madrid, and also Barcelona. I visited there using VR, a hologram, also, London, in some sense, and New York City, Ontario, and, of course, Estonia, and also Iceland. They’re all looking into, one part or another, these "people talking ...

On a national level, we’re less connected to the actual snakes. We’re connected to the taxonomy of reptiles or whatever. [laughs] We do work closely. Our architect, Julianne, just came back from Tokyo, and she also visited Madrid.

We do need more communicators on parseltongue. I think that’s the Harry Potter term, people who talk to snakes. [laughs] I think the idea is that this method, to be honest, is easier on the city level, on the township level, than on a national level.

We here also run a weekly sprint. We also run a weekly iteration so we can react, and we can also act by proactively talking to Uber, talking to Facebook, and talking to these kind of multinationals. Yes?

Once our protocols, our language, are the same, then we can both act and react bidirectionally, but until we transform digitally ourselves, internally, we can always only react, because the iteration is much faster on the other side and much slower on this side.

The idea is that the government, the political system, we can also change internally to use this kind of cross-ministry, collaborative, highly interactive way of interacting with each other. Once we do that, we’re basically on the same terms, where we’ll be speaking the same protocol with the other multinationals ...

It’s written by young public servants, because the underlying sandbox system, Sandstorm, is cybersecurity-hardened. You don’t have to worry about security when you write for this system. They just concentrate on getting the lunch boxes represented correctly, and it automatically tallies what we order for lunch. [laughs]

I don’t have to work here in the administration, mostly because I just use all those free software tools. It’s called Sandstorm, and it’s cybersecurity...We hired white hat hackers, making sure it’s secure. Everybody can know what my team is doing at any time, at any point. We have chat ...