We have started a process of looking more at privacy by design ideas, and how to really create a consumer conversation about what consumers care about and what they see in products, and point out the discrepancy between those and how products are made.

Also, people have so many devices now. For you to lock up each device [laughs] is very time consuming. No one has the time.

The tobacco companies hook you early. They’ve got you for life. That’s the place to really look on a systems-level change. It felt to me that we needed to do some system-level change conversations in this space, rather than the individual intervention model.

From my experience working on tobacco control issues, so fighting the tobacco companies, one of the pivotal changes in the mid-’90s was moving from stopping each individual from smoking, to looking more closely at the business model.

We’ve always thought that giving people education about what they can do would then spur change, but the marketplace is so out of sync, in terms of options for consumers. We started to look at what we can do to change that.

One thing that I noticed is that Mozilla has focused a lot on giving consumers tools that they can use. We were telling people to install Tor and to use Signal. Lovely tools, but one that are very hard for people to use and very lacking in the general understanding ...

One of the things that I was given as a charge was to work on privacy and security. It was hard for all of us, not just me, but even the staff who’d worked to figure out how to tackle such a large issue.

I mostly consider myself a consumer advocate, now that I think about it. I’ve worked on consumer issues, like healthcare reform, but also on women’s issues, issues of fair pay for women, paid family leave, and those sort of things for family work. Very deep variety of background.

When I joined Mozilla last January I was new to the issues. Super excited for me to have a corporation that’s connected because I’ve never had a product that would instill and try to be the flagship for values. That was really interesting.

We started working with the Indian Mozilla community, actually, on privacy. They do privacy events. We’re providing some materials that we’re working on, and they’re sharing theirs. It’s really lovely.

I’m not surprised, but that’s lovely to hear, because it does allow us to do some work. It builds our strength and it gives us a resource to work together, both ways.

Actually, that’s really great to know, about the Taiwanese community. I’m learning where Mozilla is strong, not just with staff, but community.

That’s great. I can tell you a little bit about where we’ve been since I’ve joined and where we’re headed for the year. Maybe that might spark.

Very interesting. What about Mozilla’s work would you like to know a little bit more about, since we have the opportunity to chat one-on-one? I don’t know who else you’ve been in contact with.

It also provokes the important question among leaders, in particular, which is, if they want to keep something private, why. [laughs] There’s some things that truly need to be private, and some things that are power related that feel like they need to be private, but actually would change the ...

The concept of working open was not one that had really permeated my consciousness, although it was true for my practice, in terms of some of the work that I was doing. Thinking about infusing that at all levels of work, including in the government, is very interesting to me.

Within the technology sphere, I’m new to the technology field. I worked more on other public interest issues.

Yes, I wish I was banned from saying anything. It would make me a lot less busy. Yes, that’s the whole job, and more. That’s interesting.

It’s to say that I have a very long interest in the broader work that you’re doing. I’m excited about your leadership and your work for lots of reasons.

That’s it. That’s her process.

They make legislative priorities and try to change things, but it’s more the personal experience that she’s trying to change. They’ve done it in a number of states, as pilots, in the US.

She’s working with state legislators now and doing intensive connections about what they care about very early on in their career, because our national politics is so divided that she’s trying to create an imprint experience early in their career that they can have shared values with others.

Her stuff might be interesting.

My previous boss Caroline Lukensmeyer is an innovator in that field within the US. She is now the Executive Director of the National Institute for Civil Discourse. I can share her work with you.

It was so interesting to have the opportunity to talk to you because in my previous life, I actually did large-scale public participation/public policy issues, using technology, but in similar ways, but more voting technology, but discussion. It was primarily a discussion-based...

Exactly. I think the speaker loses some of that in-person connection, but it’s a good way to share ideas and the question platform is fascinating and really amazing.

Social innovation and environmental stewardship. [laughs]

I was just re-watching your MozFest speech. I came in and then someone pulled me away while I was there, so I wanted to see more of it one time. [laughs] It’s quite good. How was that experience for you?

Apologies for so many tries on my part.

Finally. I’m so sorry.

Yes, I can. [laughs]

Hello.

Hi, there.