Yes, thank you.

…and wish you luck. As I said, we’re coming into a very rough period in world history.

Good. I’m reluctant to take up your entire day. [laughs] I wanted to thank you for your time …

I might even be going there. I know I’m meeting several Hong Kong people while I’m here.

The Hong Kong dissidents here, how did they fit into your argument or your plan? Do you have regular dialogue with them?

I remember people saying that about Hong Kong.

Why is that producing this new level of aggression against Taiwan?

Do you have a sense of what’s happened in China that makes that possible, or what’s changed? Do you have a guess at it?

You mean cyber disinformation, military pressure …?

Which it didn’t used to be. Do you have a sense of why that’s happening? How’s that going to affect Taiwan? How does it affect the work that you do?

The Congress and the completion of the transformation of China into not just a one-party state but a one-man dictatorship.

Can I ask you, just out of curiosity, what you make of the events in China over the last few days and how that …

Any future’s fine with you?

Your interest is creating the digital infrastructure that makes it possible.

Is there anyone in Taiwan who thinks along that way, or not?

Do you think about those audiences and how to reach them, or is that not your job?

There’s an audience that would be receptive to hearing about the environment, and that’s a different audience.

Then there’s an audience who would be interested in hearing about peace in the world, and that might be a little bit bigger.

I was asking something a little bit different, namely do you think about what narratives would be effective in China? Are there ways to reach … There are different kinds of audiences in China. Obviously, there are different audiences everywhere. There’s an audience that would be receptive to hearing about ...

Do you think at all about narratives that work or ways to contact people in China? Or is that you leave to the Hong Kong journalists?

Overseas Chinese communities?

Do you have any sense of any kind of take-up among the general public? Is that something you can measure or not? Are you able to measure counter-messaging in Chinese media or Chinese Internet?

The Great Firewall has not banned access to GitHub?

… who are digital. Do you think at all about the broader public in China? In China and in Russia, but it’s the same …

… already activists …

That reaches the people who are …

I know you are.

I’m aware of some projects, mostly not publicized.

What do you do that you think is successful?

Do you think at all, not just about defending democracy and democratic resilience and so on, do you think at all about pushing the idea of democracy in the autocratic world, so in China or in Russia?

You’re the first person I’ve heard say that. I hear, “My impressions of Silicon Valley is getting worse, [laughs] not better, on these issues.” You’re in touch with people there on …?

Are you aware of more?

You think people in America are working on the root causes, other than the three academics at University of Texas, and University of Massachusetts?

As I said, in the U.S., at least on the surface, I don’t see any of these things happening. I see, in fact, the polarization growing rather worse.

You find people are taking it up?

A lot of other democracies are in trouble. American democracy’s in trouble. Some European democracies are in trouble. More generally, the pressure on democracies around the world is quite strong. Do you think at all about that, about how to share your methods with others? Do you have conversations about ...

Taiwan is really only safe as a democracy if other democracies support it.

This is a parade or something?

This was into 2014?

For example, the Uzbek social sector also objects to the way Facebook works sometimes, but apparently they don’t seem to have the same purchase, or the …

Was your social sector pushing on Facebook to make a change?

Yes.

… and these same kinds of rules. You can’t regulate them.

How do you deal with the influence of Facebook and other outside social media? They don’t have these same kinds of …

Public TV can also be captured.

Public TV.

In the U.S., what you have is this phenomenon of people saying the mainstream media is associated with one party, so we’re going to create a separate media. The separate media then becomes an area for disinformation, rumors, and so on.

Social sector meaning NGOs?

If not, why not, rather?

If so, why not?