Bye-bye.

Have a good day.

Thank you.

Can you send us the link of the...?

Yeah, for me it’s OK. I think our video is really blur anyway so...

For sure you should come to Paris. Please, come to visit either in our old place, either in our new place. We’ll be there.

Super nice. Thank you. I don’t if you have some question for us. I think we have a lot to think.

I would like to know a more general context about how are things going, how things in Taiwan? How is your government going?

Maybe I have just one last that it’s not really directly related to...

Nice. I don’t know if you have other question.

What kind of mindset and posture are...Advice can you give to them so they don’t give up and try to imagine the administration of the future in frugal digital administration?

Yeah, that’s true. I don’t know if that rings something for you, but we thought maybe you could just...Since the conversation is recorded and will be published in a way or the other, we thought maybe if you have some advice for civil servants lost in French today administration.

For us, it looks a little bit like Taiwanese already the administration of the future in a sense. I guess we could begin the workshop by just documentary about how is it working in Taiwan. It looks like crazy for French administration.

Some of the administration can obviously see also what you just mentioned, like less budget. It’s a way to play on those words because we don’t want to make an administration with less budget. That’s not what we think, but it’s often what we hear. I don’t know.

Yeah, that’s kind of a play on the word that we...Because for us, it’s more when we say frugal, we think more environmental problems.

Do you understand frugal?

Oh yeah, digital.

Do you say frugal? No, I’m checking for the transcription, I mean translation of the word. Actually [French] . Yeah, that’s frugal. It’s a...How do you say?

Too blurry but we need it to imagine thing that are really new or not happening for the moment or not to imagine new steps. The topic of the workshop we will do tomorrow is...How do you translate that actually? I don’t know.

It’s like something we have done three times for now on different topics. It’s doing really well because we think that foresight on these a little bit...

Then we will prototype some of the ideas, at least one of the ideas, that was developed during the workshop and try it in different administrations. We have both legs. We really blur foresight scenarios for administration in 5 to 10 years and also concrete prototype that we want to ...

Our project is about trying to imagine collectively the future of administration so that’s a foresight project. It’s one day and half workshop altogether. The aim is to imagine some scenarios for the future of the administration, and then in the second part, we will work on the scenarios.

Designers, sorry. Lila is a designer. [laughs] Designers, developers.

What we are doing tomorrow...It’s not tomorrow. It’s the day after tomorrow, actually, and the day after the day after tomorrow. We will gather 15 persons coming from very different backgrounds, so there are civil servants from city level, county level, national level and also people from private organization and ...

...be to explain to you a little bit more why we are doing this interview today in which project and maybe have just some insights and maybe some advice for the participants of our project that we will just describe. Do you feel like describing the project or do you ...

Cool. I don’t know if you have other questions, Lilas, but maybe what we thought would be nice if you have still a bit of time...

...that you had some in each administration, you have someone dedicated too?

OK. On your everyday work, your team, with who are you working in each administration? Is it with the top direction? Is it with some people working on specific projects? Is it a mix of all of that? Why are you...?

Decoupled. Is it like a note that you will give to other administration? Is it a training? How do you communicate with them?

For example, what was exactly your role when you suggest to other administration to use this process of, what’d you say, decoupled?

That’s really interesting because in France, we have this kind of specialty of, for example, for national health insurance. They wanted to make a new platform, mostly internally, but it take ages and millions of euros. In the end, it doesn’t even manage to make it because of back-end problems. ...

Do you have these kind of big contractors the administration is working with them, or are you developing internally?

They know what they want, but they still have to explain everything in the public procurement. Usually, it’s a big contractor, like a big company, that will do the app. Usually, the app in the end will not really be exactly what it was supposed to be at the beginning.

Usually, the person writing the public procurement, they are the person in charge of the policy. They are not really technical. Usually, they are asking something like a little bit, I don’t know. They are asking for, I don’t know, a map, for example.

Also, another question that might or might not be relevant for your context. In France usually if, for example, an administration wants to create a new public service, probably the administration will make a really expensive contract, a public procurement with some developer.

This service doesn’t allow us to use some tools. For example, for most of French Administration, using Google Map is not possible from their workplace. Do you have this kind of problem here?

Yeah, for sure, it does. It might look silly because I know in Taiwan you are generally more numeric-friendly than in France, but we have often this problem in our program. We have a service that is in charge of security, safety for the network and Internet in the administration.

Oh yeah.

No, we see the GoodNotes screen.

You made a talk in Paris, where you presented a case about social housing in Taiwan?

Our first question is about the software tools that you are using while you work -- civil servants. Do you use special tools? Did you find that difficult because some of the civil servants must not be used to only all kinds of tools, this kind of question?

We prepared some questions that we didn’t read in your interviews. Maybe we missed something, so sorry if you answered this question.

Yes.

OK.

CastingWords? OK, because...

What software do you use for the transcript? It’s brilliant.

Can I ask you a question?

Sure.

It lasts a bit longer. If it’s really for a year, the municipality should give us another space just after, a place which is actually better. Let’s see. Let’s see how it goes. [laughs]

We have to launch the new place in January probably, so it means we have to work from now to December. The place is only for a year, so it’s really short. We have to be quite quick to move. If not, it doesn’t worsen it. You know how it ...