I really appreciate this. I really appreciate it.

Thank you so much. This is super helpful.

That’s fascinating, because in a sense you take out the polarization, which is what disinformation is supposed to do.

Public health mindset almost brings people together.

As a public health issue. Where does that come from, and what was the thought process behind that? I think a lot of people in the US maybe it’s just in our culture we see as a warfare issue, [laughs] but you guys see it as a public health issue.

If I can have one follow on. A lot of policies is about framing, and it seems like US have framed disinformation as…

The last question I want to ask you about is I think on the very forefront technology is deepfake. Have you guys thought about deepfake and ways to counter that?

My last class with Joan Donovan was called Memetic Warfare. [laughs]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but it seems like you guys are seeing how things go viral on the Internet and using those tools.

That’s funny.

It actually happened, just not the right year.

Is this being used now government-wide?

This seems to be a very effective but also time-consuming.

[laughs] Have you thought about how to scale this?

Troll hugging. That’s funny.

This is really interesting, and I haven’t seen this before. Could you talk a little bit about how you came to this delivery mechanism, like what were some of your ideas behind it?

That they’re being the clarifiers.

You said about 1 in 10.

Interesting. You essentially make it more human.

Have you guys been able to – I don’t want to point at any party – work with other political parties on this effort?

…deweaponize, disarm disinformation is if someone from their camp comes out and says something being like, “This is actually not right.”

We learned that oftentimes the best way to counter or to clarify or to…

I took a disinformation class at Harvard most recently with Joan Donovan. I’m not sure if you’re familiar with her.

It sounds like you guys think about disinformation a lot like a virus.

This is really helpful. A lot of these policies are very innovative. They seem to affect younger people the most. They were already people who are already better at detecting disinformation. Have you found these policies to be effective at either ending disinformation or raising the media competencies of older ...

Could I ask what other new policy proposals that you guys are considering now regarding Chinese disinformation and propaganda?

Have you guys seen that there were less propaganda and disinformation in the 2020 elections compared to the 2018 elections?

Have you found that…

Yeah, norm-building. Now, I want to talk a little bit about the 2020 elections. I was wondering, what were you guys able to learn from the 2020 elections regarding Chinese misinformation and propaganda?

It sounds like a lot of work is a whole society crowdsourcing model.

…with the journalists, social sector. Who is coordinating all of this?

It sounds like you guys work a lot with private companies but also with…

Is any of this supported by the government or is this all from civil society?

Does LINE work with TFCC as well?

To measure like your policies, and how it’s been effective, or…?

Let’s see. I know in technology, we talk a lot about measure effects, make sure effectiveness. Have you guys been able to find some sort of metrics to…

Yeah, I’ve seen this one.

Could you explain a little bit, you mentioned that humor and outrage are two outlets of anger, and they’re mutually exclusive, so when they use humor, that prevents the outrage?

OK.

OK, great. You guys create memes so that it can be spread more quickly?

That’s the one.

That’s not the same one as the Froggy one, is it?

Now moving to more general topics, what policies are you guys implementing right now to combat not only Chinese but general propaganda and disinformation?

Have you or the TFCC saw a similar attack before, during, after anything related to the most recent election in Taiwan?

To start off, I just want to have it on the record, is there Chinese sharp power attacks in Taiwan, and if so, how does the Taiwanese government detect it?

Yeah, I have a set of questions I was wondering if I could talk to you about, specifically on what the government is doing in terms of technology and innovation.

Great. My thesis topic is on the effects of Chinese sharp power on Taiwan’s 2020 elections. I’m studying this to provide some, in a sense, implications for the US, and how the US could help Taiwan and also its other allies.

I know. There was one just last week too. [laughs]

Great. Thank you so much for meeting me. I know you have a busy day already. Just a little bit of background, this is my master’s thesis at Harvard. I was most recently here at AIT during the summer as an intern here, but I was fortunate to be the ...