Sandy, the MIT Media Lab person.

That’s right. The cross-ministerial purview of the DPA is what we are having a general consultation and designing at the moment. The other thing that people often talk here in Taiwan is, as opposed to open data, there is a movement called Open Algorithms, started from Sandy and friends.

It’s also the minister for prisons. [laughs]

Because they are under the auspices of different ministries, like physically different networks, and a very strict data protection law against use of unauthorized purpose.

Right. There is a health card serial number, of course. Inside of the health card, of course, there is your national ID. The national ID number, Taiwan has a national ID number. That can be joined, of course, with the ID database, but they never do that. It’s totally different ...

There is no link.

It’s absolutely separate from the health card, but both are mandatory.

It’s the ID card. It’s also our national PKI, so that anyone has this card, which is pretty advanced. It’s a combi card. It’s touched-based and so on.

For example, the EID is the ministry of interior. Health card is ministry of health and welfare. There’s actually no way that they would be much into the same card, just based on the reason of data protection and learning.

If there is going to be a cross-ministry DPA, then that would change things, because the rules will be different. They are also stakeholders. They also have a stake in this.

Like, they are already being impacted by the GDPR. They will want to know, if Taiwan have a DPA, what kind of impact it will have on them. Currently, a certain company under the purview of a certain ministry already knows pretty well how that ministry operates in its role ...

It’s taken the form of rolling surveys, but also, we’re also thinking about getting recommendations from individual experts. So far, when I say we, we mean the V-Taiwan community has talked with the Taiwan Association of Human Right, as well as people who are more interested from the ecommerce level, ...

As a matter of fact, we are designing a DPA right now, using a multi-stakeholder setting, one of the stakeholders being Lisa.

We send a robot avatar.

It’s OK. We have an avatar now.

It’s just data loss. [laughs]

You have no problem?

Censored.

Because it’s a mobilizing tool, isn’t it?

Once you have one variant, it’s pretty cheap to have the other.

It’s going to published here?

What was the full title, again?

Yeah, but data from the people, too, so why not with the people?

That’s where the accountability comes in. If you are not accountable, you’re not part of the evidence.

Yeah, what can you do?

It’s a great translation.

I haven’t, but I read a lot.

Isn’t that what’s it about? You won’t use generated data, sousveillance.

Why for the people? Why not with the people?

It’s Taiwan, it’s mandatory to...

It also arguably provides a safer thing, because the minister of health and welfare would never work for the minister of economy. [laughs]

Japan was like that, but now, they have their DPA as well. That leaves Taiwan. We’re unique, actually. We have a very modern data protection law, but it’s enforced differently ministry from ministry.

The 32 people. If you meet 0 person or 32 people, that’s both normal, one person, not so much.

Yes, because of the 32 people.

Yes. We’re so far the only country with a modern data protection law without a central data protection agency. Instead, we have 31 or 32 data protection agencies.

Very little common good in which the different ministries...

In Taiwan, there is no central data protection agency. Every ministry is responsible for all the different businesses under the auspices of that ministry. There is very little...

We’re firmly on the data agency side.

Taiwan is intended to join the CBPR.

We’re harmonizing with that framework here, too. In APEC, we’re having a GDPR compatible framework...

So when they publish according to GDPR everything about one’s data in an understandable and easy to access form, supposedly...

You think Facebook is much more flexible and less principled?

The senses.

Wouldn’t you say it’s a more serious thing than the loss of services and goods?

Certainly, but I haven’t...The point was, that what the most company can do is that with about the business services. You also said that there is something that the companies can do that are obviously exceeding an impact on an individual beyond the loss of data and goods, which is ...

Then you also said that actually, they may cause more, let’s say social impact, on an individual if, instead of loss of goods and services, they fabricate a reality, like the Plato’s cave, that people lives in, and gives people the impression of a synthetic reality, essentially?

Interesting. The most companies can do, you said, was the loss of services and goods, essentially?

You are not worried about companies, because you think they will be compliant?

The GDPR.

That’s the only two fears, which are all very manageable, it seems, that you have about data personally?